Logfile from ifmud.

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ifMUD
An interactive real time social network chat bulletin board
quotebook url database with a parrot bot
Copyright 1997-2007 by Loungent Technologies, a wholly owned subsidiary of
rec.[arts|games].int-fiction; All rights reserved.
Release 4 / Serial number 990908 / perlMUD v2.1z
    "The characters were mostly of the cardboard cutout variety.
    I wanted to punch everyone except the one Scottish guy."
         --Jearl
  NOTE: Whenever a fix or enhancement is in place, it will be announced
  on the channel '#mud-updates'.
  OTHER NOTE: There is a mailing list where people can say things like
  "hey, the mud's down, what's up with that?" In fact, since this is
  the only thing the list is used for, you should join it if you are
  interested in this subject. To join, go to
    http://groups.google.com/group/ifmud/
  or talk to Steve.
Robinson Manor
A gracious, welcoming, airy space. Music drifts in from unseen speakers. A picture window on the southern wall provides a pleasant source of light and a sense of openness.
You can see: teleporter, a picture window, comfy sofa, Jeopardy podium, buzzer1, buzzer2, buzzer3, Jota greets Rob
Visible Exits: west, east
<Rob> There is no other option for the world than to invade America and dismantle the lasers, send them through a time portal, and repurpose them as vibrators for dinosaurs. I?ve invented much of this."
No new channels have been created since your last check.
Adventurer's Lounge
Candles on the wood-panelled walls create a comfortably dark atmosphere. Hand-drawn maps are taped to nearly every surface -- the walls, the ceiling, the trophy case in the corner. Seating is plentiful. A small storage closet is to the north.
You can see: new laundry list, Birthday Calendar, magic laundry list, banner reading "Happy birthday Bishop!", Even Newer World Map, charset sampler, Automeeter, TheMasterTheorem player names, time zones, MUD Client Wish List, battle.net battletags, madlibs, Anything Finder
Players: Alex, markm, Touchy, jpt, Jon, GDorn, Ryan, Allen, baf, Dave, annabianca, Psmith, lpsmith, Jacqueline, zaphod, Marktwo, vimes, maga, Jearl, small, marc, Bishop, BrenBarn, Grocible, Doug, ghira, boucher, Hugo, Fang, borowski, Emily, DorianX, two-star, K-Y, Lionheart, Limax
Visible Exits: north, west, southwest, southeast, up, east
Rob comes right on in.
Recapping 1000 of 4693 lines from recent channels:
[babies]/15:15 Matthew says, "Oh, I'm not dissing C-sections.  I was just a little surprised.  They strike me as 'natural birth'-type people."
[babies]|15:16 Matthew says, "So I'm assuming it wasn't planned, but."
[babies]|15:16 boucher says, "Yeah, in fact, there's some reason, the more natural births a woman has, the more risk they perceive in continuing that way, so often a woman who has had several is strongly suggested to deliver via C-section"
[babies]|15:16 Matthew says, "Huh, weird.  I wonder why that is."
[babies]|15:16 Fang asks (of Matthew), "are you really close to these people?"
[babies]|15:17 Matthew says (to Fang), "I would say so."
[babies]|15:18 Matthew says, "Oh wait, here's the explanation."
[babies]|15:18 Matthew | it wasn't a time head exactly, but it was a bit of a cone head -- poor thing was trying to come out of a cervix that just wasn't ready to dilate.
[drwho]|15:18 boucher says, "They should rename themselves the Plot Lords, then"
[babies]|15:18 Matthew | ;I think I have to look up 'time head.' I've never heard that one before...
[babies]|15:18 Dave says, "They never mentioned C-section to us"
[babies]|15:19 Matthew says, "I think I have to look up how to @endpaste, man."
[drwho]|15:19 baf says, "Hm. The Plot War."
[babies]|15:19 Dave says, "although there was some nervous chatter when Irene had pre-eclampsia at seven months and they thought she might start having seizures"
[drwho]|15:19 Tale says, "From a non-linear, non-sunjective viewpoint, plot is a straight line..."
[drwho]|15:20 boucher says, "'We perceive there will be a grand need for something rhythmic in the final episode of a season that is millennia to come in this young boy's life.  Here, we will induce a psychosis that will only manifest at the proper time.  Thus it is done.  Be at peace, young one, and await renewal for another season.'"
[babies]|15:20 Matthew asks (of Dave), "Which kid was this with?"
[drwho]|15:21 baf says, "I'm just remembering that bit about replacing 'Force' with 'plot' in Star Wars. 'He is strong in the plot', etc."
[babies]|15:22 Matthew asks, "Er, so I guess 'time head' is a Dr. Who reference?"
[babies]|15:24 Matthew says, "Wow.  On a Google Images search for 'time head,' the first result is... ELI GRANADE."
[babies]|15:25 Jota says, "Yeah, 'time head' is a Doctor Who reference."
[drwho]|15:25 borowski says (to ghira), "I haven't seen any new episodes yet."
[gayrights]|15:25 inky | Minnesota-based General Mills has come out against the state.s proposed constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriages.
[gayrights]|15:25 inky says, "I assume they were previously prohibited by don't ask don't tell"
[babies]|15:27 Jota says, "In which a character is concerned that flying around on the TARDIS while pregnant could affect the development of her child."
[babies]|15:27 Jota | Amy: Why do you think? I travelled with you in this TARDIS for so long, all that time, even if I was pregnant wouldnt it have had an effect? I dont wanna tell Rory that this baby might have three heads or like a time head or something
[drwho]|15:27 borowski says, "Before this winter I'd never seen any episodes at all."
[lounge]|15:29 borowski is not even legally a mammal.
[lounge]|15:29 * borowski has disconnected.
[lounge]|15:29 borowski likes a realistic, down-to-earth lounge that's completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots.
[gayrights]|15:30 Ryan asks, "Oh, is that the Oreo thing?"
[gayrights]|15:30 Matthew says, "I disapproved of the Oreo thing."
[gayrights]|15:30 Matthew says, "THEY SHOULDN'T SHOW PRODUCTS LIKE THAT IF THEY DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST DAMN IT"
[gayrights]|15:31 Ryan says (to Matthew), ""Disliked", I think."
[gayrights]|15:31 inky says, "hee hee"
[babies]|15:31 Fang says, "maybe it's a Dirk Gently reference"
[gayrights]|15:31 inky says, "it was mentioned in a paragraph with the oreo thing so I think they are different"
[gayrights]|15:31 Ryan says, "If General Mills came out with actual rainbowified versions of a bunch of their products, I would buy them even though I never buy General Mills."
[babies]|15:31 Fang says, "it's so big only time travel can extract it"
[gayrights]|15:33 inky says, "also, the article had a good line about how the people who are upset about the oreo picture would presumably have objected to the original oreo when it came out as supporting interracial marriage"
[drwho]|15:33 Jota says, "#tangent from #babies, and <SPOILERS>, but I am still pretty pleased by the fact that Amy turned out to be more or less correct there."
[drwho]|15:34 inky asks, "the baby did have a time head?"
[drwho]|15:35 Jota says, "Not literally, but it was severly altered pre-natally by Amy being on the TARDIS."
[lounge]|15:35 Liance goes home.
[drwho]|15:36 Jota says, "(But not in a bad way: it actually distorted the kid's DNA to make it half Time Lord.)"
[drwho]|15:36 inky says, "well, that makes sense"
[drwho]|15:36 inky says, "in a doesn't-really-make-sense kind of way"
[drwho]|15:36 inky says, "but it makes thematic snese"
[drwho]|15:36 inky says, "er, sense"
[drwho]|15:36 Jota says, "Yeah."
[drwho]|15:37 inky asks, "also, if you are half time lord, do you have one and a half hearts?"
[drwho]|15:37 Jota exclaims, "An excellent question. Which might be answered some day!"
[drwho]|15:39 Jota says, "Also, it was particularly thematically appropriate, because one of the on-going themes up to that point had been that Amy had had a crush on the Doctor, who was all the things her actual fiance had trouble living up to."
[drwho]|15:40 inky says, "yeah"
[drwho]|15:40 inky says, "I think one of the few dr who episodes I've seen is the one with the split realities"
[drwho]|15:40 inky says, "uh, I guess that probably doesn't narrow it down much"
[drwho]|15:40 Jota asks, "The Dream Lord one?"
[drwho]|15:40 inky says, "one of the realities had evil old people"
[drwho]|15:40 boucher says, "Actually, wait...I mean, #genetics, and #reality-doesn't-apply-to-scifi-you-jerk, but..."
[drwho]|15:41 Jota asks (of inky), "Part of it was set in the future on Earth, and part of it was in the present on the TARDIS?"
[drwho]|15:41 inky says, "yeah, I think so"
[drwho]|15:41 boucher says, "We already should know what happens if someone with something twice as much is crossed with someone with only one."
[drwho]|15:41 boucher says, "Depending on how it gets formed"
[drwho]|15:42 inky asks, "how is harrt formed? how boddy make blud?"
[drwho]|15:42 boucher says, "Whether two-heartedness is a recessive or dominant trait, etc."
[drwho]|15:42 boucher says, "Also, what inky said"
[drwho]|15:42 inky says, "hmm"
[drwho]|15:42 Jota says, "You could wind up with three hearts."
[drwho]|15:43 inky asks, "*are* there any cases where if you get half of something by doing a crossbreed?"
[drwho]|15:43 Jota says, "If the genes for Time Lord hearts aren't in the same place as the ones for the human heart."
[drwho]|15:43 boucher says, "There's also that.  And a chest the width of a hallway."
[drwho]|15:43 inky says, "I guess you might get a not-fully-formed thing"
[I7]|15:43 Dave asks, "is there a way to extract all of the text?"
[I7]|15:43 Dave says, "or there is and I forgot how"
[drwho]|15:43 Jota asks (of inky), "Melanin?"
[drwho]|15:43 boucher asks, "Didn't they say some silliness like that Time Lords have a triple-helix genetic molecule?"
[drwho]|15:43 inky says, "yeah, that's true, if you count non-atomic stuff there are things like skin color and height and so on"
[drwho]|15:43 Jota says, "Yeah, this is where it gets weird."
[drwho]|15:44 Jota says, "And the fact that there was no Time Lord parent DNA involved."
[drwho]|15:44 Jota says, "Just a mutation that converted some human DNA into Time Lord DNA somehow."
[drwho]|15:44 boucher says, "Maybe time twists the DNA just that much harder"
[drwho]|15:44 inky asks, "is 'time lord' interchangeable with 'gallifreyan'?"
[I7]|15:44 DavidW asks, "hm. There was a way with I6, but I forget how. Maybe there was a compiler -flag?"
[drwho]|15:44 boucher says, "No"
[drwho]|15:45 boucher says, "Well, maybe, but edging on no"
[drwho]|15:45 Jota says (to inky), "This is where I wave my hands and distract you with something shiny rather than trying to answer."
[drwho]|15:45 inky says, "hee hee"
[drwho]|15:45 boucher says, "Time Lords appear to be a privileged class of Gallifreyan.  There are many who seem to be either of a lesser class or to have explicitly rejected Time Lord society.  Whether it's a social or genetic distinction, I don't know."
[drwho]|15:46 Jota says, "So maybe she has human genes, but they're encoded into Time Lord-formatted chromosomes or something."
[drwho]|15:46 inky says, "that would make sense"
[drwho]|15:46 Jota says, "For some value of 'sense'."
[drwho]|15:47 boucher says, "Regarding 'formatted', I have to say, molecular biology has reached the point where it seems almost attractive to me.  I mean, it's just like programming, kinda.  Only with life!"
[drwho]|15:47 Jota says, "Heh, yeah."
[drwho]|15:47 boucher says, "Insert 'playing God' warnings, etc."
[drwho]|15:47 Jota says, "The compilation cycle can be a bit slow, though."
[lounge]|15:49 Yuri arrives from the east.
[babies]|15:51 * borowski has joined the channel.
[drwho]|15:54 ghira says (to boro), "belatedly, crikey. I could imagine the web planet might make you wonder why anyone decided to bring this show back"
[Europe]|15:56 ghira says, "merkel "no eurobonds as long as I live" (at least, according to italian websites)"
[smoochies]|15:56 Jon says, "had more extended conversation with potentially-interested coworker."
[smoochies]|15:56 Jon says, "(about tshirts and pixar movies, and her parents)"
[smoochies]|15:57 Jon says, "also, figured out how to pronounce her name properly. (It's harder than it seems, because she's Chinese and her name uses letters that are pronounced differently in pinyin than they are in english.)"
[smoochies]|15:59 inky says, "nice"
[obama-sux]|16:00 Allen | I will be the first president in modern history to be outspent in his re-election campaign, if things continue as they have so far.
[obama-sux]|16:00 Allen says, "#humblebrag"
[obama-sux]|16:02 inky says, "man, I'm not sure that is a brag"
[obama-sux]|16:02 inky says, "it sounds more like a plea for funding"
[obama-sux]|16:02 Allen says, "yeah it is http://www.barackobama.com/news/entry/i-will-be-outspent "
[smoochies]|16:03 Ellison says (to Jon), "I dunno, I think it is suspicious she says it's pronounced 'kiss-mee you-fool'"
[smoochies]|16:03 inky says, "hee hee"
[smoochies]|16:03 Jon says, "hooray"
[workplace]|16:09 Allen says, "there's now a war of noise going on"
[workplace]|16:09 Allen says, "some of our tech creatives are annoyed at the noise the ping pong ball players make"
[workplace]|16:09 Allen says, "so they've decided to whoop like gibbon monkeys whenever the ping pongers get too loud"
[workplace]|16:10 Allen says, "*there are no winners in this situation*"
[workplace]|16:11 inky says, "ha ha"
[lounge]|16:12 Emily arrives.
[lounge]|16:13 Doug says, "hi Emily!"
[lounge]|16:13 Emily asks, "(warily) hi?"
[lounge]|16:14 Doug says, "I wanted to ask you a spoilery (but fairly trivial) question about Bee"
[lounge]|16:14 Emily says, "okay, sure"
[lounge]|16:14 Doug asks, "#spoilers?  or whisper?"
[lounge]|16:14 Emily says, "whichever you like"
[workplace]|16:14 katre says (to allen), "I have only one word for you: KLEZMER"
[workplace]|16:15 katre says, "well, and also "plus huge speakers""
[shadowrun]|16:16 Tale says, "Oh god, this feels like a breakup letter"
[workplace]|16:16 Allen says, "my good speakers went out and all I have now are crappy ones"
[shadowrun]|16:16 inky says, "dear mister johnson"
[shadowrun]|16:16 Tale says, "trying to tell my GM I want a new character"
[workplace]|16:16 Allen says, "I do have plenty of klezmer"
[workplace]|16:16 katre says, "that's actually not a problem for this purpose"
[workplace]|16:16 katre says, "as long as they're loud"
[shadowrun]|16:17 katre says, "step 1: 'I get out my phone and call Lofwyr. I tell him he's both stupid _and_ ugly'"
[weather]|16:17 Allen says, "eep 104 observed today"
[shadowrun]|16:18 inky says, "hee hee"
[weather]|16:18 borowski says, "Eek. It's actually been fairly decent here today."
[weather]|16:20 Allen asks, "what's Maryland like in July?"
[shadowrun]|16:20 lpsmith says, "Hunh, I was misreading that name as 'Lowfyr' this whole time."
[weather]|16:20 Allen asks, "will I see a respite when I'm there?"
[weather]|16:21 borowski says, "I'd think it would be cooler than Texas."
[weather]|16:21 Allen says, "no wait, Delaware"
[shadowrun]|16:21 inky says, "are you a dragon with low fyr? you need draconic viagra"
[facebook]|16:21 markm says, "Seeing a lot of people warning users that facebook changed everyone's profile's email address and 'here's how to fix it'"
[facebook]|16:22 markm says, "which includes the steps necessary to update your email address"
[facebook]|16:22 markm says, "But should be steps necessary to delete your account"
[facebook]|16:23 inky says, "I assume the original thing is a hoax"
[facebook]|16:23 inky says, "so I don't get why the instructions would be legit"
[facebook]|16:23 Fang says, "Well, maybe this means facebook's deleted your account for you."
[facebook]|16:24 Fang says, "given that I don't know I have a facebook email account"
[facebook]|16:24 markm says, "hm"
[facebook]|16:24 Fang asks, "if emails are now sent to that, doesn't that mean effectively, I won't get any more emails from them?"
[facebook]|16:24 markm says, "it does seem hoax-y, yeah"
[facebook]|16:26 Jon says, "no, it's a thing that really happened"
[facebook]|16:26 Jon says, "you can share your email address in your profile"
[facebook]|16:26 Jon says, "you also have a facebook 'email address' that forwards to your facebook message inbox"
[facebook]|16:27 Jon says, "if you shared your email address in your profile, facebook helped correct that by hiding your real email address and showing your facebook email address instead"
[amazon]|16:27 Dave says, "okay so I'll take votes"
[amazon]|16:27 Dave asks, "what _should_ the price of Kindle Shadow be?"
[facebook]|16:27 Jon says, "I checked and this happened on my account."
[facebook]|16:27 lpsmith says, "Yeah, mine as well."
[facebook]|16:27 inky says, "hunh, weird"
[florida]|16:27 Allen |
[facebook]|16:27 lpsmith says, "Though I forget what I had before."
[amazon]|16:27 Jon asks, "I forget, what market segement are you targeting? Kids? parents? schools?"
[amazon]|16:27 Alex says (to Jon), "Awwwk! Word on the street is that kids are a plague upon this earth!  Get them away from me!  Awwk."
[florida]|16:27 Allen | 'Papa Smurf' says he was too drunk to remember trespass warning
[shadowrun]|16:27 katre says, "ha ha"
[facebook]|16:28 lpsmith says, "I just hid all email addresses."
[shadowrun]|16:28 katre says (to lps), "it's from memory, I could be wrong"
[facebook]|16:28 lpsmith says, "(now)"
[food]|16:28 boucher says, "My life is now complete"
[shadowrun]|16:28 katre says, "to get back on track, I'm not sure why this is a hard talk"
[food]|16:28 boucher says, "I have had one of the Tacos Locos that Taco Bell makes with Doritos-flavored shells"
[shadowrun]|16:28 katre says, "I've sent several characters, shadowrun and D&D and 7th sea, off to noble retirement after a life of service"
[amazon]|16:28 Jota says, "One dollar less than the Kindle version of a typical book that's in paperback."
[food]|16:28 DavidW asks, "oh? How was it?"
[shadowrun]|16:28 katre says, "(although I am still grumpy with a certain GM about Pyotr's fate)"
[food]|16:29 boucher says, "Like a taco.  With a Doritos-flavored shell."
[shadowrun]|16:29 lpsmith says, "Hee"
[food]|16:29 DavidW says, "ha ha ha"
[food]|16:29 boucher says, "But still, I had one"
[food]|16:29 zarf says, "he said his life was complete, not *better*"
[shadowrun]|16:29 lpsmith exclaims, "It turns out it is really hard to kill a character when you are not used to it!"
[shadowrun]|16:29 katre says, "heh"
[facebook]|16:29 vimes says, "well, all my email addresses were still hidden"
[food]|16:30 DavidW says, "I'm sure there's other food things to try. Someone on my facebook news feed mentioned banana ketchup, for example."
[food]|16:30 Matthew says, "I. C. K."
[amazon]|16:30 Dave says, "obviously there's a price point where it's an impulse purchase"
[food]|16:30 Jota says, "I had one once. It tasted like a sensible combination."
[amazon]|16:30 Emily says, "$4.99 feels about right to me, but I'm not sure why I pick that number"
[amazon]|16:30 Dave says, "this is the same as the iPod/iPad pricing question"
[amazon]|16:30 Dave says, "they are pushing $3.99"
[food]|16:30 Allen says, "I'm waiting for the cool ranch burrito"
[jobs]|16:31 olethros says, "feh. My boss does not seem to be so keen on promoting me"
[food]|16:31 DavidW says, "I don't like ranch flavourings."
[food]|16:31 boucher says, "It may seem pathetic or silly, but there were times when I was really depressed where, amongst more and less significant thoughts of things I might never experience again, if I were to pass away, was 'Eating at Taco Bell.'  A simple, dumb, crude pleasure I'd be denied if I didn't continue."
[food]|16:32 boucher says, "You can't say that's the only thing that kept me going or anything like that."
[jobs]|16:32 olethros asks, "I _did_ greatly help one of his phd students to graduate, can't I get some recognition or something?"
[food]|16:32 boucher says, "But still, it was in there somewhere."
[amazon]|16:32 Jota asks, "What does a typical book that's out in paperback cost on the Kindle?"
[amazon]|16:32 Matthew says, "It depends a lot on the book."
[food]|16:33 DavidW says, "It doesn't sound silly at all. I remember one time when the only thing that motivated be to get out of bed was Animaniacs or Freakazoid cartoons."
[writing]|16:33 Hugo says, "Man, I like writing."
[writing]|16:33 Hugo says, "That can change, and I say that because I usually don't like writing, but today, man, I like writing."
[amazon]|16:33 borowski says, "Yeah, new books might be a couple of dollars off the print price, but I got an ebook from the 70's last night for $3."
[jobs]|16:33 olethros asks, "hm anyway, I am doing this presentation. Should I put pictures?"
[amazon]|16:33 inky says, "$3.99 vs $4.99 doesn't really seem worth arguing about"
[amazon]|16:34 Jota says (to inky), "Well, it is 20%. Or 25%, depending on how you look at it."
[amazon]|16:34 inky says, "as long as you're not actually losing money on it"
[amazon]|16:34 Emily asks, "I guess another question is what is King of Shreds and Patches charging? or the Choice Of people?"
[food]|16:34 DavidW says, "(I never really quite grew up, y'know.)"
[amazon]|16:34 borowski says, "Ah, I missed the earlier bit of this conversation."
[amazon]|16:34 Emily says, "because you may be in line to pick up some of their customers who want more"
[amazon]|16:34 inky says (to Jota), "yeah, but if he sells a hundred copies, who cares; and if he sells a million copies, he'll get a bunch of referrals for his next book which can be priced more accurately"
[workplace]|16:35 katre says, "I have spent all day debugging problems with one particular ad campaign"
[food]|16:35 boucher says, "Yeah, I vary in age, emotionally and mentally, as needs be."
[amazon]|16:35 inky says, "uh, next game"
[workplace]|16:35 katre says, "I think I have seen this woman shave her leg about 30 times"
[jobs]|16:35 inky says, "yes"
[workplace]|16:35 Jota says, "Tomorrow, you can bring in some lotion for her."
[food]|16:36 zarf says, "I prefer to think of myself as 'not competent to be an adult'"
[jobs]|16:36 Jota says (to inky), "You don't know what the pictures would be of."
[jobs]|16:36 inky says, "ha ha"
[food]|16:36 vimes says, "non compost mentos, as it were"
[food]|16:36 Jota says, "That seems like a dangerous philosophy."
[writing]|16:37 Hugo asks, "Just making stuff up.  What could be easier?"
[tangent]|16:37 Emily says, "so this weekend I was at Chris Crawford's Phrontisterion conference, which was interesting in a variety of ways, but one of the ways was that both Dan Fabulich and Alexis Kennedy were there, and we talked a lot about market and monetization for interactive story stuff"
[tangent]|16:37 Emily says, "and their take was basically "for people who are really into choice-related stories, they'll buy everything that any of us can get to market, so we're not really even competitors yet""
[tangent]|16:38 inky says, "interesting"
[tangent]|16:38 inky says, "then they shook hands and backed out of the room slowly, never taking their eyes off each other"
[tangent]|16:38 Emily says, "ha ha ha"
[tangent]|16:38 inky says, "but yeah, that makes sense"
[tangent]|16:39 maga says, "the market isn't exactly oversaturated with quality products"
[tangent]|16:39 maga says, "but presumably is because they're having to create a market"
[tangent]|16:39 inky says, "I assume right now a lot of the difficulty is around getting people to know that this stuff is out there"
[tangent]|16:39 inky says, "and having multiple companies doing it just helps everyone"
[tangent]|16:39 maga says, "awesome"
[tangent]|16:39 Emily says (to inky), "yeah, exactly"
[tangent]|16:40 Doug says, "I suspect it will take a big-name author doing CYOA to really bring it into the limelight"
[tangent]|16:40 Emily says, "so more content in the same market just reinforces the market category"
[tangent]|16:40 maga says, "and, hmm, I have the vague suspicion that eventually CYOA is likely to be a bit more genre-driven than IF"
[art]|16:40 Ryan says, "I wonder what a courtroom sketch artist's hourly rate is."
[tangent]|16:41 DavidW asks (of maga), "mm?"
[zarfplan]|16:41 zarf says, "okay, that's the email and the to-do list items from the last week"
[art]|16:41 vimes says, "one penny per year, plus all the food he can steal from the judge's lunchbox"
[art]|16:41 inky says, "probably pretty high, since I imagine they don't work that much"
[art]|16:41 vimes says, "(some of these by-law reimbursement schedules date back to the 1200s)"
[art]|16:41 inky says, "like I assume most people don't get sketched"
[art]|16:41 inky says, "hee hee"
[zarfplan]|16:41 Jota says, "Next week, you can tackle the email and to-do list items from this week."
[zarfplan]|16:41 zarf says, "all the email except two. Sigh"
[art]|16:43 Ryan says, "I was thinking it would be neat at a conference to have sketch artists to sketch a few pictures for each talk/panel/event."
[writing]|16:43 Ellison says (to Hugo), "you liked writing yesterday! you're so predictable! we need more TWISTS!"
[art]|16:43 inky says, "if you're willing to cheat, you could probably have them draw from a photograph"
[amazon]|16:44 Dave says, "Jimmy told me that Amazon forced him to take $3.99"
[amazon]|16:44 Dave says, "he had no basis for an argument"
[art]|16:44 vimes says, "plus then you could go get cheap caracature artists from the boardwalk rather than real-time art wizards"
[amazon]|16:44 Dave says, "I do..I've been selling Shadow at $9.95 all along"
[amazon]|16:44 Emily asks, "rather than more? or rather than less?"
[amazon]|16:44 Dave says, "Jimmy wanted to charge $10"
[board-games]|16:45 Gunther says (to markm), "yes, the UI sucks and I, too, have the permabadge :("
[books]|16:45 olethros says, "kraken is sadly becoming ridiculous"
[board-games]|16:45 markm :(
[food]|16:45 Jota | We reject certain food because it is rotten. Certain food we can see is fresh. But there is this creative space between fresh food and rotten food where most of human culture's most prized delicacies and culinary achievements exist.
[art]|16:45 Ryan says, "Hmm, I bet the students at the Center for Cartoon Studies would love to do it and wouldn't ask for a ton of money."
[board-games]|16:45 markm says, "I hate that it takes four taps to resume an 'internet game'."
[amazon]|16:45 Jota says, "$9.99 sounds like a lot."
[board-games]|16:45 Gunther says, "of course it also takes 3 taps in Ascension"
[food]|16:45 maga says, "well, most cuisine is just pre-digesting"
[amazon]|16:46 Dave says, "and he's still (I think) slightly irritated by it"
[board-games]|16:46 markm says, "hm, true"
[amazon]|16:46 Emily says, "yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if in fact Amazon forcing that has led to Jimmy making more than he otherwise would have, tbh"
[food]|16:46 vimes says, "cheese is vomit-worthy in cultures that don't normally eat it, i seem to recall"
[board-games]|16:46 Gunther says, "usually 5 because game center is so goddamn slow"
[amazon]|16:46 Emily says, "because $10 is psychologically a whole other price point"
[board-games]|16:46 markm says, "but it's obvious in ascension. play online -> game list -> tap game"
[lego]|16:46 inky | http://www.buildwithchrome.com/static/map
[food]|16:46 maga says (to vimes), "that's largely because they don't have genes that let you digest lactose as an adult"
[board-games]|16:46 Gunther says (to markm), "I don't even know how you made the game stick"
[tangent]|16:46 Ellison says, "of course, there's a difference between being genre-driven and doing genres well, but I think that was one of the things that Infocom did well (and is part of the reason their games have more lasting appeal than other older games) so I can't see that as a bad move for CYOA"
[board-games]|16:46 Gunther says, "my invitation obviously didn't work"
[lounge]|16:46 jayellem, being psychic, enters the lounge.
[board-games]|16:47 markm says, "In NSHex, it's Play -> Internet Game -> 'log in' -> Play!"
[lego]|16:47 inky says, "(works with firefox, despite the name)"
[board-games]|16:47 vimes asks, "play online -> dismiss error message about not being online -> wait for game center to finish loading -> play online -> reload game after crash -> wait for game center to finish loading -> play online -> game list -> hey, why isn't my game listed?"
[amazon]|16:47 Dave says, "I'd be happy to discount the game _later_"
[food]|16:47 maga says, "that's a very recently-evolved trait (likely contributing to the Indo-European expansion)"
[cabal]|16:47 Emily says, "Dave Dave Dave"
[cabal]|16:47 Emily says, "why do I bother talking in these conversations I do not know"
[board-games]|16:47 markm says (to Gunther), "I got the invitation -- it notified me I had a game -- but there was nothing on the list"
[amazon]|16:47 Dave says, "but to start, I'd like to set the price my way and see if I can drum up more reviews"
[amazon]|16:47 Jota says (to Dave), "That seems like the sort of thing that would smell like desperation."
[amazon]|16:47 Ellison says, "yeah, I agree with Amazon here, too. I figure you'll make the most sales with impulse buys."
[food]|16:47 vimes says, "hm, is that it?  i thought that some of those cultures drank milk but didn't eat cheese"
[telltalegames]|16:48 baf says, "GOG sale on Sam & Max 1 & 2, Tales of Monkey Island"
[board-games]|16:48 markm says, "but NSHex has a special feature where it moves the list every few seconds just in case you were about to tap on the 'Play!' word"
[tangent]|16:48 Emily says (to Ellison), "one point Dan Fabulich made is that there are different breadth/depth issues with different genres -- like, Choice of Dragon as generic fantasy has a broader appeal, but people who like Choice of Broadsides REALLY REALLY REALLY like it"
[board-games]|16:48 Gunther says, "it's seriously the worst"
[amazon]|16:48 Dave says, "I disagree....I understand I make more money by selling it at a lower price-point..and pull in many more customers"
[lounge]|16:48 Ellison asks, "hey jayellem. how has life been treating you? working on any IF?"
[food]|16:48 maga asks, "which milk-drinking cultures don't have cheese?"
[amazon]|16:48 Dave says, "but that's not my entire goal"
[amazon]|16:48 Jota says, "I would go for something between $2.99-$5.99, probably."
[board-games]|16:48 Gunther says, "possibly we should use http://online.neuroshima.org/ "
[amazon]|16:49 Dave says, "my goal is to force people to see IF as a valuable product _at_ $10"
[food]|16:49 vimes says, "see, now you're asking for factual justification rather than vague recollections of shit-i-found-on-stumbleupon"
[tangent]|16:49 inky says, "for too long I have been stuck with the same old broadsides"
[board-games]|16:49 Gunther says, "but that is not async"
[amazon]|16:49 Dave says, "and if I can get the right review...that can happen"
[board-games]|16:49 markm :(
[amazon]|16:49 Emily says (to Dave), "this is going to sound obstructionist and blunt, but I really really don't think that's going to work."
[amazon]|16:49 Jota says, "No, I believe that's incorrect."
[tangent]|16:49 Gunther says, "broadsides before hos"
[amazon]|16:49 Dave says, "but it will never happen if I simply price it the same as a Choice Of game"
[amazon]|16:50 Gunther says, "it totally works for Howard, and HIS games are $40"
[iPhone]|16:50 vimes says, "hey, apple podcast app"
[tangent]|16:50 Emily says (to inky), "heehee"
[amazon]|16:50 Gunther says, "he's sold at least 3, all of them to Allen"
[amazon]|16:50 Jota says, "Heh."
[tangent]|16:50 vimes says (to inky), "your broadsides called me crying"
[tangent]|16:51 maga says (to Emily), "similarly, I assume that the average genre-liking Choice Of Games player isn't likely to be any more interested in Varytale-like games than the average person"
[tangent]|16:51 Emily says (to maga), "there I don't know"
[tangent]|16:51 maga says, "(at least, until the hordes descend and use Varytale for nothing but paranormal fantasy)"
[tangent]|16:51 inky says (to vimes), "hee hee"
[tangent]|16:51 Emily says, "I mean, there's no reason Varytale *couldn't* do more genre stuff than it currently does"
[tangent]|16:51 Emily says, "it's just that that wasn't the profile Ian wanted for it to start with"
[tangent]|16:52 Emily says, "I offered a couple of different story premises when they approached me, and Ian wanted Bee because it felt real-life and literary compared with the other options"
[tangent]|16:52 Doug asks, "how long did you work on Bee, by the way?"
[tangent]|16:52 maga says, "I've been twitching a bit at the Lily Fox stuff, partly because it's very genre but mostly because it's obviously more in a Choice of Games choose-your-gender-and-character-class mindset"
[tangent]|16:52 Emily says, "somewhere between 40 and 80 hours before beta"
[tangent]|16:52 Emily says, "(and assorted fixes since release)"
[tangent]|16:52 Doug says, "huh."
[tangent]|16:53 Emily asks, "why?"
[food]|16:53 vimes says, "ah, i was thinking of something i read in, i think, this book:"
[food]|16:53 vimes | http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684800012
[tangent]|16:53 Ellison says, "that sounds reasonable, too. there are several things going into it, I figure. like, another thing, Angelsoft games were often based on movies and such and therefore, were genre by association, but there's a difference between writing a genre game that makes takes advantage of its medium and a game that just throws in some genre stereotype references."
[tangent]|16:53 Doug says, "it seems like it'd be more work than that.  but I'm no writer."
[tangent]|16:53 Doug asks, "how long was it in calendar time?"
[food]|16:53 vimes says, "quote excerpted here is, i believe, what i was remembering: http://hcrecipes.blogspot.com/2006/04/why-some-people-cant-stand-cheese.html "
[tangent]|16:53 Emily says, "I did some prep work on it in evenings one week around another job I was doing, and then pretty much all of my supposed Christmas vacation"
[tangent]|16:54 Emily says, "(I haven't had an actual vacation of any significance in a long, long time)"
[telltalegames]|16:54 Ellison says, "I do have to say that one of the nice things about gog's business model is how they bundle extras like wallpapers and stuff, which is almost like including cheap trinkets with your purchase, but it still makes a re-purchase somewhat appealing"
[tangent]|16:55 Doug says, "I think my ifcomp game was about the same amount of work.  but most of that was me struggling with learning I7"
[telltalegames]|16:55 inky says, "everybody loves feelies"
[tangent]|16:55 maga says (to Emily), "possibly we need to abduct you and hang out in the woods for a week or so"
[tangent]|16:55 Doug says, "and, struggling with coming up with a story"
[tangent]|16:55 Emily says, "I mean, there are a couple of things to bear in mind as far as time expenditure. 1) Bee is based on a social setting I know really well, so it didn't require a lot of invention or research to come up with concepts; 2) because it's vignette-based, it didn't require as much effort into, hrm, structuring as it might"
[tangent]|16:55 maga says, "except if we did that it'd turn out that you have a brainputer with satellite connection, and it would merely make your work more annoying"
[tangent]|16:56 Emily says (to maga), "ha ha ha"
[tangent]|16:56 Emily says, "it's only about 50K words"
[tangent]|16:56 Ellison says, "we still need to do that IF retreat some year. I think Emily voted for 'somewhere with horses'"
[tangent]|16:56 Doug asks, "what is the nanowrimo target? 100k words?"
[tangent]|16:56 vimes says (to maga), "or at least she should come hang out the evening i'm in town, which will obviously be such an excruciating social nightmare that it will /feel/ like two weeks in the woods"
[cabal]|16:56 Hugo says, "You're an eternal optimist."
[tangent]|16:57 vimes says, "50k"
[cabal]|16:57 Emily says, "I guess"
[tangent]|16:57 Doug says, "I don't really have an intuitive sense of effort-per-word"
[cabal]|16:57 Hugo says, "Or, if not, put the cap back on that bottle til at least 5:30, lady."
[food]|16:57 maga says, "I know that people are typically unable to distinguish cheese from shit in blind scent-tests"
[food]|16:57 maga says, "and possibly taste-tests, I forget"
[cabal]|16:57 Emily says, "it's just, gah, I have sat through many pricing conversations about products similar to Dave's but more accessible, attractive, and with broader appeal, and the answer in those conversations is STILL "less than $10""
[food]|16:57 vimes says, "hm, generally the cheese with any significant odor that i eat smells a lot worse than feces"
[amazon]|16:57 Dave says, "the biggest problem with Amazon's pricing is the categorization in their store"
[cabal]|16:57 Hugo says, "Well, yeah."
[cabal]|16:58 Hugo says, "I know the impulse: part of you is thinking, wait, it must be that he just doesn't *understand*.  I can *help him* to."
[cabal]|16:58 Hugo says, "But you can't."
[cabal]|16:58 Emily says, "sigh"
[cabal]|16:58 Emily says, "yeah, that is the error I am making"
[food]|16:58 inky says, "ha ha"
[food]|16:58 vimes says, "(one wheel of soft cheese i ordered came packaged in eight inches of plastic and there was a big sign on it saying, and i quote: "POST OFFICE: IF THIS SMELLS LIKE ROTTING FLESH, DO NOT THROW AWAY, IT IS CHEESE""
[tangent]|16:59 inky says, "well, the first word is pretty easy -- it's usually "The", and if not that, it's going to be "A" or "I""
[food]|16:59 maga says, "she eats these skeezy cheeses that I can't describe"
[cabal]|16:59 Hugo says, "I can't decide if I admire his fortitude or not, though."
[food]|16:59 vimes says, "plus a wodge of dry ice that caused a serious freezerburn on my porch mat"
[cabal]|16:59 Hugo says, "In semi-all semi-seriousness."
[tangent]|16:59 inky says, "everything after that is a little trickier"
[food]|16:59 lpsmith says (to maga), "(yay)"
[food]|16:59 inky says (to vimes), "hee hee"
[cabal]|16:59 Hugo says, "And his steadfast refusal to acquiesce to practicality and/or reality."
[food]|16:59 lpsmith says, "A friend of mine was once trying to figure out what something was in his fridge."
[tangent]|17:00 Jota says (to inky), "I think you're overlooking the highly-valuable 'It'."
[tangent]|17:00 Gunther says, "I'm sorry, the first... right"
[food]|17:00 vimes says, "that cheese was so pungent i was actually incapable of forcing myself to bring it to my mouth without holding my nose first"
[tangent]|17:00 inky says, "good point"
[tangent]|17:00 Gunther says, "followed soon thereafter by 'dark'"
[tangent]|17:00 Jota says, "Best of times, worst of times, dark and stormy nights. It does it all."
[food]|17:00 lpsmith says, "He opened it sceptically, and a horrific odor assaulted his nose.  "Ack, this must have gone bad!" he thought."
[food]|17:00 vimes says, "once it was *in* my mouth: ecstacy and heavenly delight"
[food]|17:00 lpsmith says, "Then he thought, "Wait, I know what this is, it's chese.""
[food]|17:00 lpsmith says, "Then he thought, "I actually like this cheese.""
[tangent]|17:00 Emily says, "I don't have a good sense of other people's writing speed or strategies, to be honest"
[food]|17:00 Gunther says, "my parents once bought tyrolean grey cheese"
[food]|17:00 lpsmith says, "And he re-smelled it and it smelled fine."
[food]|17:00 inky says (to lpsmith), "ha ha"
[food]|17:01 Gunther says, "it was in a box which was in a sealed bag which was in the deep-freezer"
[food]|17:01 inky says, "hunh!"
[tangent]|17:01 Jota says, "Not to mention facts universally acknolwedged."
[food]|17:01 inky says, "ok that is interesting"
[cabal]|17:01 Hugo says, "Were it anything other than text games, he'd probably have Facebook by now."
[food]|17:01 Gunther says, "the room smelled of dead person a few days later"
[cabal]|17:01 Hugo says, "Text games or independent films, maybe."
[lounge]|17:01 Tale is fired from breathing.
[lounge]|17:01 * Tale has disconnected.
[cabal]|17:01 Hugo says, "Okay, were it anything other than a lot of things, but hey, still, my point."
[amazon]|17:01 Dave says, "they place our games (Shreds now, mine shortly) in  Lifestyle & Home ? Puzzles & Games ? Role Playing & Fantasy"
[cabal]|17:01 Emily says, "ha ha ha"
[amazon]|17:01 Dave says, "and the Lifestyle & Home thing drives me nuts"
[food]|17:02 vimes says, "man, now i want some seriously stinky cheese"
[cabal]|17:02 Emily says, "well, I admire his fortitude too, but the steadfast cluelessness makes it not that much of an asset other than as a way to get way deeper in debt than he would otherwise"
[food]|17:02 Gunther says, "try stinky beancurd"
[cabal]|17:02 Hugo says, "That's the distinguishing part, yeah."
[food]|17:02 vimes says, "natto is not my cup of yak"
[food]|17:02 Gunther says, "different thing"
[cabal]|17:02 Hugo says, "I mean, a few of us have dabbled in commercial IF over the years."
[food]|17:02 vimes says, "oh, is it? fair enough"
[amazon]|17:03 Dave says, "ah ha - Ford is breaking"
[tangent]|17:03 Emily says, "also also also, the other thing about Bee is that I started out with a large-scale structure in mind -- I wanted to do an EBZ-style carousel piece -- and that meant I didn't have to spend lots of design time figuring out what that should be"
[food]|17:03 vimes | It is said the more it smells, the 'better' its flavor.
[cabal]|17:03 Emily says, "sure"
[amazon]|17:03 Dave says, "I will win the fight (and lose money, probably)"
[cabal]|17:03 Hugo says, "And certainly he can do math, and he can look at what's gone on with his product (products?)."
[amazon]|17:04 inky says, "it sounds like you are either in a lose-lose or a win-win, but I can't figure out which"
[cabal]|17:04 Hugo says, "And he still thinks there's some (*magical) thing he's not doing right that will somehow make all the difference and take us back to 1985."
[people-suk]|17:04 Gunther says (to inky), "lose-lose-lose-lsoe-"
[cabal]|17:04 Emily says, "well"
[people-suk]|17:04 Ellison says, "now I'm starting to wonder if Dave's real point is just to stick it to IF enthusiasts before he relents and goes for the average-person market."
[cabal]|17:04 Emily says, "one thing I would say here is that I think now is a better time than, say, 2003 to be doing an interactive text product"
[cabal]|17:04 Emily says, "because distribution channels are cheaper and easier and also there are tablets"
[cabal]|17:04 Hugo says, "Yeah, true."
[food]|17:04 Jota says, "I have never seen or smelled natto, but even the mere thought of it offends my digestive tract."
[food]|17:05 vimes says, "well, if i can find somewhere that sells it, i will try it"
[cabal]|17:05 Hugo says, "And online distribution is Parchmentally easier."
[food]|17:05 vimes says (to Jota), "it's not that bad - it tastes like someone made toothpaste from marmite, ate it, and then shat it back out again fairly quickly"
[lounge]|17:05 zarf walks off through the wall; vivid gold light flares briefly around him.
[cabal]|17:05 Hugo says, "Anyone doing an interactive text product in 2003 is a freaking idiot."
[food]|17:05 Gunther says, "then sneezed on it"
[cabal]|17:05 Hugo says, "Er, 2004, I guess."
[people-suk]|17:05 maga says, "I think it's probably more that he attaches very easily to an idea and then clings to it with limpet-like tenacity"
[cabal]|17:05 Hugo says, "One of those."
[cabal]|17:05 Emily says, "so there's an interest there; and not to get into work stuff that is proprietary and confidential, but some initial market research suggests that there are a nontrivial number of people out there who would like more CYOA/interactive story stuff if it's presented to them as "like a book that changes" rather than "like a game but slower""
[food]|17:06 vimes says, "compared to the flavor of raw sea urchin, which tastes like someone made toothpaste from natto that had gone bad, fed it to a baby, collected what came out the other end, and let /that/ rot"
[cabal]|17:06 Emily says, "heh"
[cabal]|17:06 Hugo says, "Well, I don't think you're giving away the Cadbury secret there, but I still won't tell anyone."
[food]|17:06 genericgeekgirl says (to Gunther), "cyberskunk insisted on ordering stinky tofu once, and then proceeded to text all of his Asian friends about it. He also wouldn't let me take home the leftovers :P"
[food]|17:06 vimes says (to gunther), "well, that's mostly the texture thing"
[cabal]|17:06 Hugo says, "But yeah."
[cabal]|17:06 Emily says, "well, no, of course not -- I just meant "I'm not going to whip out actual numbers here""
[cabal]|17:07 Hugo says, "This is the internet; you don't need facts."
[news]|17:07 Allen | Jay Carney: Boston Fans 'Were Saying "Yook" Not "boo" for God's Sake'
[food]|17:07 vimes says, "ha ha"
[food]|17:07 genericgeekgirl says, "They'd boxed everything up for us, and at one point, I asked him to carry the bag while walking through a park, and he immediately took the box out and threw it away."
[food]|17:07 maga says, "hmm, I wonder how much of this is to do with the hominids-as-carrion-eaters thing"
[food]|17:07 Gunther says, "I only had boiled sea urchin"
[cabal]|17:07 Hugo says, "But along that line, from what little I do know about the internet, one big tripping point with "IF" is: all the damned words."
[cabal]|17:07 Emily says, "but it helps to have some clear notion of who your audience is and what they currently like already and how you should price a thing to entice them to try a related object; and Dave has always veered around egregiously about what he's making, for whom, and how to get them to know about it"
[amazon]|17:07 Dave says (to inky), "me neither"
[cabal]|17:08 Emily says, "well, sure"
[amazon]|17:08 Dave says, "I have no marketing data on price points for IF...no one does...Amazon has price points for a _category_ that is meaningless to IF"
[cabal]|17:08 Emily says, "the parser is a problem, for one, even if you're pitching to readers"
[cabal]|17:08 Hugo says, "He has, I think, imagined some audience that doesn't in any way exist."
[cabal]|17:08 Hugo says, "Imagined to the point of concreteness."
[cabal]|17:08 Emily says, "and for another, if you are pitching to readers, you still want it to look pretty"
[google]|17:08 Allen | Google Creates 'Computer Brain'--and It Immediately Starts Watching Cat Videos on YouTube
[amazon]|17:08 Dave says, "they don't really know where to price IF either...they don't care...they're just tossing it into a convenient place"
[amazon]|17:08 inky says, "well, Emily's suggestion about looking at what Choice Of and so on charge is the closest you get to market research and a reasonable price"
[tangent]|17:09 genericgeekgirl says, "I can't think of natto without thinking of this bizarre bdsm scene I'd read about once involving natto, raw fish and a looping tape with "It's a Small World" in one ear and "Tomorrow" in the other."
[google]|17:09 Allen | 'We never told it during the training, `This is a cat,'' said Dr. Dean. 'It basically invented the concept of a cat.'
[google]|17:09 inky says, "sounds right so far"
[google]|17:09 inky says, "next up, it invents chocolate pudding and tax refunds"
[cabal]|17:09 Hugo says, "When everything on an iPad is swipeable, no one is going to want to push your little keys."
[food]|17:09 olethros says, "I like tyrolean grey cheese and it does not stick that much"
[amazon]|17:10 Ellison says (to Dave), "considering casual amazon shoppers aren't going to pay extra to check out a game type they are unfamiliar with, it comes across like, initially, you just want to stick it to IF enthusiasts."
[cabal]|17:10 Hugo says, "Touch.  Tap.  Whatever."
[cabal]|17:10 Emily says, "mmhm"
[amazon]|17:10 Dave says, "no, that's not true...again, the Choice of games were priced for them...there was no marketing done"
[google]|17:10 inky says, "(ok, rice pudding and income tax; close enough)"
[food]|17:10 olethros says, "*stink"
[food]|17:10 genericgeekgirl says, "Also, Amdi says "I know how I'm shipping raw flesh now.""
[amazon]|17:10 Dave says, "I doubt they had any choice (ironically) in their pricing either"
[food]|17:10 genericgeekgirl says, "Erm, s/raw/rotting/"
[food]|17:10 olethros says, "it's somehow similar to the frankfurt cheese"
[food]|17:11 olethros says, "what's once raw, soon will rotting be"
[food]|17:11 inky says, "I'm shipping raw flesh/Spock, same as always"
[UK]|17:11 olethros asks, "Jersey: independent?"
[climate]|17:11 Allen | Warming Oceans Will Follow Laws of Physics
[cabal]|17:11 Jota says (to Hugo), "I don't think he thinks the audience already exists. I think he thinks that he can somehow *make* people who aren't interested decide that they want it. And that keeping the price high will somehow make uninterested people decide 'wait, this is expensive? then it must be good, so I had better start liking it!'"
[climate]|17:11 inky says, "except in north carolina, where they will follow the laws of the state and like it"
[climate]|17:12 Ellison says, "heh"
[climate]|17:12 olethros says, "hee hee"
[cabal]|17:12 Emily says, "vs. making it cheap enough for lots of people to try, developing a genre and market, and then later adding more expensive premium line"
[cabal]|17:13 Emily says, "which is how I would approach this, if I thought the premium line was even necessary"
[cabal]|17:13 inky says, "in the $20 version, you can have Bella end up with Jacob"
[cabal]|17:15 Emily says, "snrk"
[cabal]|17:19 Jearl asks, "how much to have her end up with Alice?"
[Europe]|17:20 Allen says, "huh, list of 89 countries ranked in terms of government openness"
[Europe]|17:20 Allen says, "three bottom countries on list: lichtenstein, greece, austria"
[rpg]|17:20 inky | And if it does matter for some reason - maybe time goes by, and he's making a living chopping down trees, assessing the quality of timber, competing against other lumberjacks, eating lots of pancakes, developing a combat bonus against animated trees, whatever - then invent a skill and call it "profession - lumberjack" or something.
[Europe]|17:20 Allen says, "serbia, india, slovenia at the top"
[rpg]|17:21 inky says, "I don't have a feeling for how I expect most of those to fall"
[rpg]|17:21 inky says, "er"
[Europe]|17:21 inky says, "I don't have a feeling for how I expect most of those to fall"
[rpg]|17:21 Jota says (to inky), "Right after someone says 'Timber!', usually."
[Europe]|17:21 Allen says, "I was surprised to see austria at the bottom"
[rpg]|17:21 maga says, "skill Hanging, specialisation Around In Bars"
[Europe]|17:21 Allen says, "the report is about Canada: As the 30th anniversary of the federal Access to Information Act approaches, Canada finds itself tied for 51st in the world on a list of freedom-of-information rankings, languishing behind Angola, Colombia and Niger."
[rpg]|17:22 inky says (to Jota), "hee hee"
[lounge]|17:24 Yuri goes home.
[cabal]|17:24 lpsmith says, "The presence of a premium line of most things makes the regularly-priced things sell more."
[lounge]|17:25 Gunther says, "I spy with my little eye something beginning with CSB"
[lounge]|17:25 Gunther is a game about well-bred young ladies firing improbable amounts of projectiles at each other for no immediately discernible reason.
[cabal]|17:25 lpsmith says, "(especially if there is also an el-cheapo version)"
[cabal]|17:25 Emily says, "sure"
[cabal]|17:25 lpsmith says, "If Dave really wants to sell IF for $10, he should also have a $20 version."
[cabal]|17:26 Emily says, "heh"
[lounge]|17:26 Gunther's voice is husky, like dark melted chocolate fudge caramel... or something.
[cabal]|17:28 Jota says, "Cheap version: no vowels. Regular version: all the letters. Premium version: punctuation, too."
[videogames]|17:30 Gunther says, "ha ha the mcpixel level editor scripting language"
[videogames]|17:30 Gunther says, "the script must end with "thanks""
[videogames]|17:32 Gunther says, "and from the 'legal shit' (sic):"
[videogames]|17:32 Gunther | I can also change your name and level title, but only if it's offensive. I will substitute anything offensive with 'pony' (e.g. motherponyer). You like that idea.
[videogames]|17:33 vimes says, "ha ha"
[videogames]|17:33 inky says, "ha ha"
[videogames]|17:33 vimes says, "legal pony"
[lounge]|17:33 * boucher has disconnected.
[lounge]|17:33 * boucher has connected.
[lounge]|17:34 * boucher has disconnected.
[lounge]|17:34 * boucher has connected.
[lounge]|17:34 * Marktwo has disconnected.
[lounge]|17:34 * Marktwo has connected.
[videogames]|17:34 Jota says, "Then, everyone misspelled turns into a pony, beacuse they are offensive to the sensibilities of all speakers of proper English."
[lounge]|17:35 olethros has ordered three mega-generators to be installed in his boathouse.
[videogames]|17:37 jayellem asks, "Aw. Who doesn't want a pony?"
[videogames]|17:38 Jota says, "Uh. I don't actually want a pony."
[videogames]|17:38 Fang says, "but think of the glue1"
[videogames]|17:38 Jota exclaims, "Think of the shoes!"
[videogames]|17:39 vimes says, "think of the children!"
[videogames]|17:39 Jota says, "Sorry, I can't rhyme that."
[videogames]|17:40 inky says, "think of the, uh, bullpen"
[videogames]|17:40 baf says, "OK, now I'm imagining what MLP:FIM must have been like before it had this transformation put on it. Those are some really foul-mouthed little ponies."
[videogames]|17:41 inky says, "ha ha"
[webtv]|17:41 DorianX says, "The plot thickens. Spoony just announced that he's been diagnosed with biplar 2"
[webtv]|17:41 DorianX says, "bipolar"
[videogames]|17:41 inky says, "well, in the original they were hookers"
[videogames]|17:41 Fang says, "they were hung like horses"
[webtv]|17:41 inky says, "that isn't surprising"
[webtv]|17:42 Gunther says, "who could possibly have guessed"
[webtv]|17:42 Jota asks, "What's the '2'?"
[videogames]|17:42 jayellem asks, "How do you hang a horse?"
[videogames]|17:43 Fang says, "using hookers"
[videogames]|17:43 jayellem says, "Seems a rather messy means of executing the beasts."
[webtv]|17:43 inky says, "the sequel, it's not as good"
[webtv]|17:43 inky says, "I'll have my rant up shortly"
[videogames]|17:43 Jota says (to jayellem), "Not execution. Just storage."
[webtv]|17:43 Gunther says (to Jota), "The Quickening"
[videogames]|17:43 Jota says, "You just need a good, sturdy wire hanger and plenty of closet space."
[lounge]|17:44 Grocible says, "evening"
[lounge]|17:44 inky says, "howdy"
[videogames]|17:44 jayellem says, "Cool. A horse wardrobe. A horse for every day of the week."
[lounge]|17:46 jayellem says, "Hi there"
[lounge]|17:50 Jota asks (of jayellem), "I assume many have asked this already, but: what happened to kay?"
[lounge]|17:50 jayellem asks (of Jota), "Didn't he retire?"
[lounge]|17:51 inky says, "then he came back, then he went back in time"
[lounge]|17:51 inky says, "it's the old old story"
[lounge]|17:51 (From maga) jay says, "eff that guy"
[lounge]|17:51 Jota takes notes.
[lounge]|17:52 jayellem says, "In reality, however, 'K' just isn't one of my initials"
[apropos-of-nothing]|17:53 Jota asks, "If you copy your text into an array of characters, and it uses the full 8 bits for some of them, does that mean your data is high-strung?"
[lounge]|17:55 Jota says, "It's a shame your middle name wasn't 'Karl'."
[lounge]|17:55 Jota says, "Then you could just call yourself noel."
[lounge]|17:56 jayellem says, "Hah. Nice."
[lounge]|17:56 inky says, "'Noam' is also a viable name"
[apropos-of-nothing]|17:57 Gunther says, "all I know is I don't like the looks of them hi-falutin' utf-8 boys"
[apropos-of-nothing]|17:58 baf says, "I know. That snowman looked at me funny."
[lounge]|17:58 jayellem says, "I've always liked the name Rameses Niblick the Third, Kerplunk Kerplunk, Whoops, Where's my Thrubble"
[lounge]|17:58 inky says, "catchy, but I can't figure out what letters it's missing"
[tangent]|17:58 Gunther says, "I just realized I have no idea what UTF means"
[tangent]|17:59 inky says, "hmm, the u must be unicode"
[tangent]|17:59 inky asks, "translation format?"
[tangent]|17:59 Gunther asks, "task force?"
[tangent]|17:59 vimes says, "unbelievably tedious fuckery"
[tangent]|17:59 Gunther says, "UCS Transformation Format"
[tangent]|17:59 Gunther says, "thanksssssssssssss"
[tangent]|17:59 inky says, "where UCS itself stands for something? that's deep, man"
[tangent]|17:59 Gunther says, "when I see an acronym within an acronym I know it's something annoying"
[tangent]|17:59 Gunther says, "Universal Character Set"
[tangent]|17:59 inky says, "and the UCS is of course defined by an ISO"
[tangent]|18:00 Gunther says, "it's like VHDL"
[tangent]|18:00 Gunther says, "which is VHSIC hardware description language"
[webtv]|18:00 DorianX says, "IIRC"
[tangent]|18:00 inky says, "weak"
[tangent]|18:00 Allen says, "huh, I always thought the U was for unix"
[tangent]|18:00 Gunther says, "which is very-high-speed integrated circuits"
[tangent]|18:00 Allen says, "I wonder where I got that iudea"
[webtv]|18:00 DorianX says, "Bipolar 2 is hypomania + full blown depression"
[tangent]|18:00 vimes asks, "which in turn is VHDL Half-Specified Interface Code?"
[tangent]|18:00 Allen asks, "did UTF-16 come out of Bell labs?"
[tangent]|18:00 baf says, "Universal Character Set"
[webtv]|18:00 DorianX says, "Bipolar 1 is full blown mania + depression"
[webtv]|18:01 DorianX says, "It is possible I have these backwards"
[tangent]|18:01 Jota says, "I now see why Gunther hates GNU."
[webtv]|18:01 Gunther says, "It seems like I missed quite the breakdown and bridgeburning after I unfollowed him"
[webtv]|18:01 inky says, "oh yeah, I forgot there was probably a real answer to the question"
[webtv]|18:01 Gunther says, "ha ha"
[webtv]|18:02 Gunther | Bipolar II disorder is a bipolar spectrum disorder characterized by at least one hypomanic episode and at least one major depressive episode
[tangent]|18:02 Allen says, "ah, Ken Thompson was involved in the specification for UTF-8"
[tangent]|18:02 Allen says, "that must be why I thought that"
[webtv]|18:02 DorianX says, "Yeah."
[webtv]|18:02 Gunther | Hypomania (literally, "below mania") is a mood state characterized by persistent and pervasive elevated (euphoric) or irritable mood, as well as thoughts and behaviors that are consistent with such a mood state. Many people also experience signature hypersexuality.
[webtv]|18:02 Gunther says, "awww yeah"
[webtv]|18:02 DorianX says, "If you have a full blown manic episode you have biplar 1"
[webtv]|18:02 DorianX says, "even if you also have major depression"
[webtv]|18:02 Gunther says, "oh wait, *signature* hypersexuality"
[webtv]|18:02 Gunther says, "I don't want frottage with cheques"
[webtv]|18:03 DorianX says, "but in general Bipolar 1 is mania+depression, Bipolar 2 is depression+mania"
[webtv]|18:03 inky says, "this page says the distinction is about hypomania vs mania"
[webtv]|18:03 inky says, "where hypomania is behavior that is weird for you but not necessarily weird for normal people, and mania is behavior that is weird for any normal person"
[WIP]|18:04 maga says, "okay! I have an itemised to-do list for getting this sucker to beta"
[WIP]|18:04 Ellison says, "right on"
[webtv]|18:04 Gunther says, "well, 'persistent euphoria/irritability' is probably not normal"
[WIP]|18:04 vimes says, "step 1: get this sucker to beta"
[WIP]|18:04 vimes says, "step 2: celebratory drinking"
[tangent]|18:04 (from inky) Allen says "That must also be why I thought the F stood for Facial hair"
[WIP]|18:04 maga says, "step 3: ..."
[WIP]|18:05 vimes says, "step 3 is always profit, you fool!"
[WIP]|18:05 maga says, "not in IF, dude"
[webtv]|18:05 inky says, "right, but when you're euphoric in your hypomaniac state, you're not more euphoric than a normal person might be"
[WIP]|18:05 vimes says, "step 3 is always AMUSE, you fool!"
[webtv]|18:05 inky says, "since there are super-chirpy bouncy people out there who are "normal""
[WIP]|18:05 maga says, "it looks a bit larger than I'd hoped, and will probably grow a little as I go, but it's still nice to have things nailed down in this much detail"
[webtv]|18:06 Gunther says, "I would contest that they are ;)"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:06 Allen | http://thegeekzodiac.com/comics/2012-02-09-GZfull.jpg
[webtv]|18:06 inky says, "whereas this page says if you're, like, chirpy at a funeral, that is outside the bounds of normal behavior"
[webtv]|18:06 inky says, "also if you start having delusions/hallucinations"
[webtv]|18:06 Gunther asks, "what if you hallucinate a funeral you are chirpy at?"
[webtv]|18:06 Gunther says, "TO THE DSM, BATMAN"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:07 inky says, "hmm"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:07 inky says, "I realize this is a stupid thing to say, but I always thought the chinese zodiac seemed much less realistic than the western zodiac"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:07 maga says, "then of course there is the geek pantheon, which is just Athene over and over again"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:07 inky says, "like, everyone born in the same *year* acts the same? wouldn't that be pretty obvious"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:07 inky says, "ha ha"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:07 Fang says (to inky), "haha"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:07 Fang says (to inky), "welll"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:08 Gunther says (to inky), "I hear that a lot but it's all people who are envious they're not dragons"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:08 inky says (to maga), "YM "Summer Glau""
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:08 Fang asks, "maybe it makes more sense than the 12 month offset?"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:08 maga says (to inky), "she can be played by Summer Glau"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:08 inky says, "sold"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:08 Gunther says, "also I would like to point out Ophiuchus"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:08 Fang says, "I mean, the year everyone was involved in WWII"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:08 Fang says, "for example"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:08 Jota says (to inky), "I dunno, in some ways, the year thing could be thought to make more sense."
[lounge]|18:08 jayellem says, "Time for sleep, I think. Goodnight, all"
[lounge]|18:08 jayellem goes home.
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:08 Gunther says (to Jota), "[weasel words]"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:08 Jota says (to inky), "Because everyone born in the same year grew up in the same environment with the same influences."
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:08 Fang says, "right"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:08 baf says, "Behavior varying by year makes more sense to me than behavior varying by month. Take it out further, to the decade level, and it starts sounding like common sense rather than superstition."
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:09 inky says (to Fang,Jota), "yeah, ok, that is true"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:09 inky says (to baf), "heh, point"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:09 Gunther asks (of Jota), "*all over the world* though?"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:09 Gunther says, "also given china's regime of the last 50 years, all the signs would have had to have been identical"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:09 maga says, "I suppose in pre-agrarian societies the time of year you were born might have a pretty big influence on pre-natal nourishment"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:10 Jota says (to Gunther), "Yes, it makes marginally less nonsense for your birthyear to affect your personality all around the world than for your birth month to affect your personality all around the world."
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:10 Fang says, "#pedant Gunther, it's pretty incorrect to consider the chinese regime to have been unchanged in 50 years"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:10 inky says, "ha ha"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:10 Jota says (to Gunther), "IMO."
[cabal]|18:10 Grocible asks, "I missed another Dave fantasy?"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:10 Gunther says (to Jota), "fair enough"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:10 inky says, "people born in the year of the dragon are four inches taller and 20% less likely to have rickets"
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:10 Gunther says (to Fang), "also fair enough"
[cabal]|18:10 Jota says, "Yep. You can recap #amazon if you want to re-live the glory."
[apropos-of-nothing]|18:11 Gunther says, "in china, everyone wanted to know our signs. I came prepared, of course."
[footnotes]|18:11 Fang says, "notionally, it's called the same thing, and the government likes to pretend, but the people in power today are literally the same people they were trying to mass murder 30 years ago"
[videogames]|18:11 Gunther says, " http://www.giantbomb.com/news/you-should-read-this-rant-by-a-tekken-producer/4240/ "
[cabal]|18:11 Grocible says, "he's like the Terminator"
[cabal]|18:12 Grocible says, "he JUST WON'T STOP!"
[cabal]|18:12 Grocible says, "until YOU ARE DEAD!"
[footnotes]|18:12 inky says, "hmm, I don't think I really realized that"
[lounge]|18:12 DorianX slouches off, muttering, "Why did we decide to travel to a planet called 'Pandora' in a ship called 'Titanic' launched from a base called 'Icarus' to find a resource called 'Lucifer'? Why must we tempt fate?"
[lounge]|18:13 DorianX enters, asking, "Did someone order A LARGE HAM?"
[footnotes]|18:13 Gunther says, "I more meant the censorious overburdening government's influence on the general population"
[cabal]|18:14 Grocible asks, "he wants to flog CYO games on Kindles or something?"
[cabal]|18:15 inky says, "IF games, but yeah"
[videogames]|18:15 Gunther asks, "also, what's the deal with the new ME3 ending? has the shitvomiting begun?"
[cabal]|18:16 Grocible says, "we all have our dreams"
[videogames]|18:16 inky says, "oh yeah, good question"
[videogames]|18:17 Gunther says, "looking on SA now, reaction seems positive"
[videogames]|18:17 Gunther says, "time to go to #spoilers I think"
[videogames]|18:18 Ellison says, "the whole 'players are entitled' argument is annoying just because it detracts from the point that ME3's ending sucks"
[myth]|18:18 Jota says, "I wonder what fraction of major mythological figures ultimately had happy endings versus unhappy endings."
[myth]|18:18 Jota says, "(Ignoring the ones with no explicit ending.)"
[myth]|18:18 Gunther says, "norse gods: all dead"
[myth]|18:18 Fang says, "hmm"
[myth]|18:19 Gunther says, "greek&roman: no ending"
[myth]|18:19 Fang says (to Gunther), "all but two"
[myth]|18:19 Gunther says, "germanic: also all dead"
[myth]|18:19 vimes says, "how many major mythological figures had happy endings at all? i can't think of any off the top"
[myth]|18:19 Gunther says (to Fang), "Lif and Lifthrasir aren't gods"
[myth]|18:19 Fang says, "oh, right"
[videogames]|18:19 Ellison says, "I've mentioned this on here before, but my brother tells me that some ME3 call the last creature you fight in the game a hero who dies trying to save people from that awful ending"
[videogames]|18:19 Ellison says, "some ME3 players"
[myth]|18:19 Jota asks (of vimes), "Didn't a bunch of Greeks wind up in Elysium?"
[videogames]|18:19 Fang says, "yeah, dumb shit like that"
[videogames]|18:20 Gunther says (to Ellison), "you know, after the unbelievable deluge of shitposting about D3, I'm willing to go on record saying that yes, the players ARE all whiny, entitled shitfucks"
[myth]|18:20 Jota says, "(Admittedly, I can't think of any off the top of my head.)"
[myth]|18:20 Fang asks, "what do we consider happy endings here?"
[myth]|18:20 vimes asks, "hm, i think only boring mortals go to elysium, don't they?"
[myth]|18:20 Fang asks, "I mean, Odysseus: happy ending?"
[videogames]|18:20 Gunther says, "no matter whether or not the ending sucks"
[videogames]|18:21 inky says, "it looks like they expanded the three endings and added one new one where you tell people to screw off"
[myth]|18:21 vimes says, "at least that's sort of what i recall"
[videogames]|18:21 Gunther says (to inky), "see #spoilers for what happens in #4"
[videogames]|18:21 Fang says, "they basically added character epilogues, I think"
[myth]|18:21 Jota asks (of Fang), "Was returning home after the war Odysseus' last story?"
[myth]|18:21 inky asks, "if you die heroically in battle, is that a happy ending or an unhappy one?"
[myth]|18:21 Fang says, "yes"
[myth]|18:21 Fang asks, "I think?"
[myth]|18:21 Gunther says, "oh, figures, not just gods"
[myth]|18:21 Gunther says, "my favorite greek figure had a happy ending"
[myth]|18:21 Fang says, "unless he's in Argonauts"
[videogames]|18:21 Ellison says, "well, yeah, I hate players, too. I'm just saying, a bad story is a bad story."
[myth]|18:22 Gunther says, "Diomedes"
[myth]|18:22 maga says (to Fang), "there are also versions where he never fits in at home, and goes off to wander the world and eventually dies far from home"
[videogames]|18:22 Fang says, "Mass Effect 3 is not a bad story"
[myth]|18:22 Gunther | He lived a long life but there is no clear record as to how he died. Some claims that he was buried or mysteriously disappeared on one of the islands in the Adriatic called after him (Diomedeae). Others say that he did not have to face a mortal death.
[videogames]|18:22 Fang says, "it's a bad lack-of-a-final-cutscene."
[myth]|18:22 maga says, "although these are of rather later origin; I don't remember if they're even Greek"
[videogames]|18:22 Ellison says, "plus, ME3 is an odd scenario since only a couple of the game writers got to handle the ending and they shut everybody else out."
[videogames]|18:22 inky says (to Ellison), "oh, hunh"
[myth]|18:22 Jota says, "I guess myths are pretty vague on the whole concept of endings."
[myth]|18:23 Gunther | He lived a long life but there is no clear record as to how he died. Some claims that he was buried or mysteriously disappeared on one of the islands in the Adriatic called after him (Diomedeae). Others say that he did not have to face a mortal death.
[myth]|18:23 Fang says, "anyways, that seems pretty happy"
[videogames]|18:23 Ellison says, "at least one of the shut-out writers has spoken up about this, I believe"
[myth]|18:23 baf says, "As has been pointed out before: All lives end in death, so if you want a happy ending, you have to stop telling the story before it gets that far."
[myth]|18:23 Gunther asks, "also would you consider Arthur's end a happy ending?"
[myth]|18:23 Fang says, "no"
[myth]|18:23 Gunther says (to baf), "OR DO THEY see above"
[videogames]|18:23 inky asks, "hercules eventually gets poisoned and dies in pain and then is taken up to be a constellation, right?"
[myth]|18:23 Fang says, "Arthur is at best neutral"
[videogames]|18:23 inky says, "er"
[myth]|18:23 inky asks, "hercules eventually gets poisoned and dies in pain and then is taken up to be a constellation, right?"
[myth]|18:23 maga says (to Gunther), "it becomes happy when he rises from his tomb and kicks Cameron's arse into the sea"
[myth]|18:23 Fang says, "yes"
[myth]|18:23 Gunther says, "even Hercules was removed and turned into a constellation"
[lounge]|18:24 * boucher has disconnected.
[lounge]|18:24 * boucher has connected.
[myth]|18:24 inky asks, "so is that happy or not?"
[myth]|18:24 Gunther says (to inky), "he burns himself to death because he gets tricked into wearing a nettle shirt"
[myth]|18:24 Fang says, "I guess bittersweet"
[myth]|18:24 Gunther says, "this makes him the biggest pussy ever"
[myth]|18:24 Fang says, "haha"
[myth]|18:24 Fang asks, "what about prometheus?"
[myth]|18:24 Gunther says, "and simultaneously the most hardcore"
[myth]|18:24 Fang says, "NOT THE FILM."
[myth]|18:25 vimes says, "ha ha ha"
[myth]|18:25 maga says, "it's set up that way so that he's never defeated in battle, right"
[myth]|18:25 Gunther says, ""ow it stings *SET FIRE*""
[myth]|18:25 vimes says, "the film almost had a happy ending but then that one chick survived"
[myth]|18:25 Fang says, "I mean, we forget that the prometheus story we know is only part I"
[lounge]|18:25 * Marktwo has disconnected.
[lounge]|18:25 * Marktwo has connected.
[myth]|18:25 Fang says, "of three"
[myth]|18:25 Gunther asks, "isn't Prometheus eventually released?"
[myth]|18:25 Gunther asks, "and starts a liverloaf business?"
[myth]|18:25 vimes says, "part one: STEALING FIRE"
[myth]|18:25 Fang says, "right, eventually Prometheus is released and forgiven"
[myth]|18:25 vimes says, "part two: STEALING BRATWURST"
[myth]|18:25 vimes says, "part three: FANTASTIC COOKOUT"
[myth]|18:25 Gunther says (to vimes), "oh god ayn rand flashbacks"
[myth]|18:26 Fang says, "because he saves Zeus or something"
[myth]|18:26 Gunther says, "part 2.5 BEEFSWELLING"
[myth]|18:26 vimes says, "prom "humpey sausag" etheus"
[myth]|18:26 Gunther says, "it is little known Prometheus' first name was John"
[myth]|18:27 Gunther says, "it's little known that most of the greek heroes with only one name were actually named John, in fact"
[myth]|18:27 Gunther says, "this is why they were referred to by last name"
[myth]|18:27 maga says (to Gunther), "this explains why Atlanta was so butch"
[myth]|18:27 Gunther says, "the big exception is Achilles, whose first name was Hilda"
[myth]|18:29 Fang says, "I think 'bob' would be funnier"
[myth]|18:29 Gunther says, "that's the trojans"
[myth]|18:29 Gunther says, "Minus Paris, whose first name was Pussy"
[myth]|18:30 Fang says, "anyway, going back to the point"
[myth]|18:30 Fang says, "maybe sad stories are just more memorable"
[myth]|18:30 Gunther says, "many final endings are not pertinent and never mentioned"
[myth]|18:30 Fang says, "clearly someone needs to do an experiment"
[myth]|18:30 Fang says, "tell two stories"
[myth]|18:31 Gunther says, "hell, some of them are fanfic"
[myth]|18:31 Fang says, "at the end of one, THEY ALL DIED"
[videogames]|18:31 Gunther says, "and it begins. http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/06/26/mass-effect-3s-extended-cut-too-little-far-too-late/ "
[myth]|18:31 vimes says, "at the end of the other one, nobody knows, because we've forgotten the story"
[videogames]|18:31 Gunther says, "note that this isn't forbes so much as some shitty bloggers"
[myth]|18:31 Fang says, "heh"
[myth]|18:31 Fang says, "yes"
[myth]|18:31 Gunther says, "wait, hang on"
[myth]|18:32 Gunther says, "every SINGLE fairy tale ends with everyone living happily ever after."
[myth]|18:32 maga asks (of Gunther), "have you *read* Grimm?"
[myth]|18:32 Gunther says, "yes, yes, not the stepmothers"
[videogames]|18:32 baf says, "Too much too early, say I! I'd been looking forward to experiencing this infamous ending and now it sounds like I'll never get the chance."
[myth]|18:32 maga says, "a lot of them end with 'then the devil appeared and took his soul off to hell'"
[myth]|18:32 vimes says, "or "and then they ate him", i seem to recall"
[videogames]|18:33 Gunther says, "if only there were a tube for you to watch them at"
[videogames]|18:33 Fang says (to baf), "you can just not download the DLC"
[myth]|18:33 maga says, "although I suppose a lot of that is just 'wickedness punished' without an actual hero to benefit thereby"
[myth]|18:33 vimes says, "and the boring people go to elysium and everyone else suffers for eternity"
[videogames]|18:33 Gunther says, "also LOL this idiot thought Bioware would make that retarded indoctrination theory the real thing"
[myth]|18:34 Fang asks, "did that Pineapple story end happily?"
[myth]|18:34 Fang says, "I mean, the animals' hunger was sated"
[videogames]|18:34 Gunther |  Each new cutscene is about five minutes long, though four minutes of them are the same across all three, other than the voiceover. The major function of the new endings is seemingly to fill in a few plotholes [...]
[myth]|18:34 Gunther says, "ha ha h"
[myth]|18:35 Gunther says (to Fang), "well, we learned earlier today what 'big pineapple' really means"
[myth]|18:35 Fang says, "a more exotic version of New York>"
[myth]|18:36 Gunther says, "D3"
[myth]|18:36 Fang says, "oh"
[myth]|18:36 Gunther says, "so basically the animals are battle.net shitposters"
[videogames]|18:37 Gunther says (to Fang), "you're gonna love these new endings."
[videogames]|18:38 Fang asks, "does it involve a developer sitting down and saving fuck you for 45 minutes?"
[videogames]|18:38 Fang says, "saying"
[videogames]|18:38 Gunther says, "the new ending does"
[videogames]|18:39 Gunther says, "the others, well, remember when you pondered what the destruction of the relays meant for the galaxy? this is now answered"
[videogames]|18:40 Fang says, "you might want to say that on #spoilers"
[videogames]|18:40 inky says, "hmm"
[videogames]|18:40 Gunther says, "I'll tell you there if you want to know"
[videogames]|18:40 inky asks, "are there any commercial games out there where the end of the game twist is that the previous third of the game was all a dream?"
[videogames]|18:41 Fang says, "hmm"
[videogames]|18:41 Fang says, "well"
[videogames]|18:41 Fang says, "what's its name"
[videogames]|18:41 Gunther says, "there are some where *all* the game was a dream"
[videogames]|18:41 Fang says, "Second Sight"
[videogames]|18:41 Fang says, "or something"
[videogames]|18:42 Fang says, "entire game was premonition"
[videogames]|18:42 Gunther says, "anyway, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgYYYmzr7_A "
[videogames]|18:42 inky says, "oh, cunning"
[videogames]|18:42 Gunther says, "it in turn links to the rest of the endings"
[videogames]|18:43 Fang says, "the final cutscene was the player character deciding to go back through, but this time making the critical change that allows an unavoidable apparent disaster not happy"
[videogames]|18:43 Fang says, "happen"
[lounge]|18:45 Gunther is a game about well-bred young ladies firing improbable amounts of projectiles at each other for no immediately discernible reason.
[workplace]|18:51 Allen says, "ha, our annoying wilton guy may have just involuntarily self-destructed"
[workplace]|18:51 Allen says, "he tried to escalate the issue to higher ups in the company"
[workplace]|18:51 Allen says, "who did NOT care for his disrespectful tone"
[WIP]|18:55 maga strikes off a bullet-point.
[WIP]|18:55 maga says, "Well, *that* was unexpectedly easy."
[WIP]|18:57 vimes says, "now to the celebratory drinking!"
[WIP]|18:57 maga says, "maybe once I've done some actual writing"
[webgames]|18:58 maga says, "man, what is it about shitty hard rock that makes it so appealing to flash game designers"
[wtf]|18:59 DavidW says, "#onion http://menomoneefalls.patch.com/articles/woman-attacks-husband-for-having-the-shepherd-express-the-onion-in-his-car "
[wtf]|19:02 lpsmith says, "That URL is much better than the article."
[wtf]|19:02 lpsmith says, "'I can't *believe* you had the shephered express the onion again!  And in our car, no less!'"
[wtf]|19:05 inky says, "ha ha"
[wtf]|19:05 inky says, "yeah, that's totally how I read it"
[wtf]|19:06 maga says, "Shepherd Expresses The Onion, position 746, the Book of Unknowable Pleasures"
[videogames]|19:07 DorianX says, "Hm. Deadly Premonition kinda fell apart at the end."
[wtf]|19:08 Lionheart says, "Well, speaking of WTFs, PSA fail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g032MPrSjFA "
[videogames]|19:09 baf says, "OK. One thing I want to know about the ME3 ending:"
[videogames]|19:09 baf asks, "Does Shepard express the onion?"
[videogames]|19:09 Lionheart snrks.
[videogames]|19:10 Jon says, "hm, that's out now"
[videogames]|19:10 Jon says, "I guess I'll have to watch the video versions."
[videogames]|19:10 Jon says, "I can't be arsed to replay through the final assault four or five times."
[TMI]|19:11 inky says, "my main association with 'express' used as this kind of verb is apparently for some kind of dogs you have to express their anal glands once in a while to prevent them from getting infected or something"
[TMI]|19:11 inky says, "which is enough to make me never want to become a vet"
[TMI]|19:11 Jon | http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/10/22
[jobs]|19:12 Dave says, "I am at 1871. My official new office for Textfyre."
[wtf]|19:12 maga says, "possible science careers include sexy scientist, sexy mortician, sexy forensic pathologist, sexy mad scientist, shampootologist, and calceotrician"
[jobs]|19:12 Dave says, "pretty strange."
[jobs]|19:13 Dave says, "It's like a library/bar/warehouse."
[TMI]|19:13 inky says, "ha ha, exactly"
[jobs]|19:13 inky says, "sold"
[jobs]|19:14 Dave says, "I have a meeting with an MBA graduate tonight."
[wtf]|19:14 DavidW says (to Lionheart), "yikes"
[jobs]|19:14 Dave says, "I've been looking for a business partner that can handle business/sales/marketing and help me do planning."
[telltalegames]|19:15 Jon says, "hm, some telltale adventures on gog.com"
[jobs]|19:15 Dave says, "and I found an MBA graduate who's interested and doesn't care about money"
[telltalegames]|19:15 Jon says, "I wonder if they're truly DRM-free; in the past, the games have required logging in with a telltale account, iirc."
[telltalegames]|19:16 Jon says, "(and I consider that a form of DRM, since the games presumably won't work if the telltale server goes down)"
[lounge]|19:16 Matthew goes home.
[telltalegames]|19:16 baf says, "I assume they are. We're certainly capable of doing DRM-free builds."
[cabal]|19:17 Emily says, ""MBA graduate who doesn't care about money""
[jobs]|19:17 inky says, "remember, an MBA graduate who doesn't care about money is just a BA"
[jobs]|19:18 inky says, "(I am not sure what this means)"
[cabal]|19:18 Emily says, "thank you!"
[wtf]|19:18 DavidW says, "Thinking of what 'Science: It's a Boy Thing' might be like reminded me of http://www.reallifecomics.com/archive/120625.html "
[jobs]|19:18 Dave says, "heh"
[telltalegames]|19:18 inky asks, "GOG has stripped DRM from other games in the past, hasn't it?"
[cabal]|19:18 Emily says, "I needed there to be a joke there but I wasn't sure what the punchline was"
[cabal]|19:18 Emily says, "I feel better now"
[jobs]|19:18 Dave says, "I meant...he has a savings he's living off of and wants to join a start-up"
[cabal]|19:19 inky says, "hooray"
[wtf]|19:19 Lionheart chuckles.
[wtf]|19:19 inky says, "ha ha"
[lounge]|19:19 Olly arrives in a puff of yellow smoke, which makes them cough.
[telltalegames]|19:19 Jon asks (of inky), "define 'stripped'? I don't think they make unofficial patches; it's more like getting a non-DRMed build from the dev, right?"
[lounge]|19:19 Olly says, "Hello, MUDniks."
[lounge]|19:20 maga says, "olly"
[telltalegames]|19:21 inky says, "hmm, I have no real idea"
[lounge]|19:21 two-star sought a woman and found a monkey. Well, it happens.
[telltalegames]|19:21 inky says, "for the really old games I would think the devs would no longer be in a position to make a DRM-free build"
[lounge]|19:21 Olly says, "Hello, two-star."
[lounge]|19:21 two-star says, "Hi."
[telltalegames]|19:21 inky says, "so I think I assumed they took some public patch and applied it to the executable and the original rights older blessed it"
[cabal]|19:22 Grocible says, "heh"
[telltalegames]|19:22 inky says, "er, rights holder"
[telltalegames]|19:23 Jon says, "fair enough"
[minicomp]|19:24 maga says, "whee, slew of spam on cover stories images"
[minicomp]|19:24 maga says, "I wonder which of these auto-generated countries would be the worst for local online dating"
[minicomp]|19:25 maga says, "so far I'm guessing Iraq"
[minicomp]|19:27 maga says, "okay, Afghanistan trumps that"
[beer]|19:27 Allen says, "picked up an Elderberry beer"
[beer]|19:27 Allen says, "I bet it's gonna suck"
[beer]|19:28 maga asks, "how light is it?"
[beer]|19:28 Allen says, "5.5%"
[beer]|19:29 Allen says, "'elderberry weiss'"
[google]|19:29 inky says, "I'm trying to view a google docs page and it keeps bouncing me to google drive's home"
[google]|19:29 inky asks, "I don't have to sign up for google drive to view google docs now, do I?"
[google]|19:29 lpsmith says, "It's telling you to drive home, it's late, inky."
[google]|19:29 inky says, "hee hee"
[beer]|19:31 maga says, "and I'm guessing that an online dating service in Syria may not be the best idea just at the moment"
[beer]|19:31 maga says, "ilac"
[minicomp]|19:31 maga says, "and I'm guessing that an online dating service in Syria may not be the best idea just at the moment""
[google]|19:35 Jon says (to inky), "docs was renamed to drive, on the grounds that this would confuse nobody ever and also help adoption of drive."
[minicomp]|19:36 maga says, "also, they distinguish island nations at the scale of the Isle of Man, Monserrat and so on"
[minicomp]|19:36 maga says, "but have clearly deleted all the 50-odd African nations from their list and just put in 'African'"
[minicomp]|19:37 lpsmith says, "all dating africans are jet-setters maga"
[minicomp]|19:38 maga says, "let's just remove that guest comment option, shall we"
[google]|19:43 inky says, "hee hee"
[google]|19:43 inky says, "yeah I'm fine with that, but going to a docs.google.com/foo/bar/id=whatever url is redirecting me to the drive home page, which doesn't seem right, and changing the docs. to drive. does the same"
[lounge]|19:50 Ellison says, "later"
[lounge]|19:50 Ellison goes back to Squeamhurst..
[lounge]|19:50 * Ellison has disconnected.
[lounge]|19:54 inky says, "ok zip"
[lounge]|19:54 inky got credit for creating Common and the concept of money, for generating lots of art and literature, and for being the very best at killing his enemies.
[history]|19:54 DorianX says, "I was thinking today"
[history]|19:55 DorianX says, "My parents are only a couple of years apart in age, but they could possibly be considered different generations"
[history]|19:57 DorianX says, "Now, Leah and I are even closer in age, but were both between cohorts"
[lounge]|19:58 K-Y's apocalyptic flotsam included the emergence of figures of such dazzling dementia as to momentarily mesmerize even thinking people.
[lounge]|19:58 K-Y says, "re"
[history]|19:59 DorianX says, "Hm. My dad's mother might be a different generation from my other grandparents"
[history]|20:00 DorianX says, "my dad's siblings are firmly greatest generation and silent generation"
[apropos-of-nothing]|20:01 Jota says, "Huh, there is a computer-related observation out there known as 'Mooers' Law'."
[history]|20:02 DorianX says, "they are apparently calling Dylan'd generation the "Always-On Generation""
[apropos-of-nothing]|20:02 Jota says, "And it predates Moore's Law by six years."
[history]|20:02 Jota says, "Good luck getting him into sleep mode."
[apropos-of-nothing]|20:03 Jota | An information retrieval system will tend not to be used whenever it is more painful and troublesome for a customer to have information than for him not to have it.
[history]|20:04 Olly says, "My parents were born two weeks apart."
[history]|20:06 DorianX says, "My dad was born in 47 and my mom in 49"
[apropos-of-nothing]|20:08 lpsmith says, "Also known as the cow-orkers law."
[wtf]|20:08 Jota says, "The Science: It's a Girl Thing video mentioned above led me to this excellent response video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vyAWyAUHpI "
[lounge]|20:15 Jota turns into a slimy toad!
[jobs]|20:18 Dave says, "they have a snack/soda/sandwich setup that is based on the honor system with a credit card kiosk"
[wtf]|20:19 Olly exclaims, "Science will make you attractive to men!"
[kids]|20:20 katre says, "argh argh argh\"
[kids]|20:20 katre says, "Z had head lice"
[kids]|20:21 katre says, "(I say 'had' because he is now bald)"
[kids]|20:21 katre says, "and given the sudden itchiness of my head I either have them too or I'm super-suggestible"
[kids]|20:21 Olly says, "Probably the latter, and maybe the former also."
[kids]|20:22 katre says, "yeah, not mutually-exclusive choices"
[kids]|20:22 katre says, "I did the comb on Z and found actual lice. I didn't find live lice on my head but I found either eggs or terrible dandruff"
[education]|20:22 DorianX says, "So Louisianna has dropped their plan to get rid of public education and send all the kids to religious schools."
[kids]|20:22 Olly says, "Hm."
[education]|20:23 DorianX says, "Turns out that there's no way to explicitly say "But no muslims!" without running afoul of the first ammendment"
[education]|20:23 Olly exclaims, "!"
[ollyprattle]|20:25 Olly says, "Ugh.  Triggers."
[kids]|20:28 katre says, "Z spent all day at his friend's house (not where the lice came from, since duchess left yesterday and was the first to report them)"
[kids]|20:29 katre says, "so I just had the fun of calling to say 'check your son for lice, and can Z still come over tomorrow afternoon while I'm at work?'"
[kids]|20:29 katre says, "being wonderful people, they said they'll check their son and of course Z is still invited"
[lounge]|20:30 Olly takes a plastic hamster ball from their pocket, steps into it, and rolls away.
[kids]|20:30 Olly says, "Better tell the friend's parents."
[kids]|20:30 katre says, "that's what I just did, yes"
[kids]|20:31 Olly says, "lag"
[ollyprattle]|20:33 Olly says, "You know, I really like IF without any NPCs more."
[ollyprattle]|20:38 DavidW says, "I know I enjoy my home without any roommates more."
[ollyprattle]|20:39 DavidW says, "(he's been home sleeping all day, but now busy in the kitchen, hopefully off to work in a few more hours)"
[ollyprattle]|20:54 Olly asks, "A model railroad and a can of SPAM.  What else could an adventurer want?"
[music]|20:57 K-Y says, "this is excellent http://soundcloud.com/saint-etienne/saint-etienne-lazy-crazy-hazy "
[lounge]|20:58 Lionheart can see a dream in your dance. Lionheart can see tomorrow in your dance. We can call it, "our hope"!
[lounge]|21:00 Lionheart makes no law abridging the freedom of s***ch, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to ***emble, and to pe***ion the government for a redress of grievances.
[music]|21:00 K-Y says, "probably better for those who appreciate old music"
[kids]|21:02 Dave says, "one thing we've managed to avoid is lice...we do get reports from school often, so it's slightly surprising"
[kids]|21:02 Dave says, "the pink eye is the real bugger"
[kids]|21:04 Dave says, "and now you have me scratching my head"
[lounge]|21:05 Limax comes in, looking for sneaky salt shakers.
[kids]|21:05 katre says, "just did the treatment on myself, definitely found dead lice from my hair"
[kids]|21:05 katre says, "sigh"
[lounge]|21:05 Limax says (to Bishop), "Happy Happy"
[kids]|21:05 Jota says, "Eeeagh."
[kids]|21:06 katre says, "well, I already found live ones on Z, so"
[iPhone]|21:07 Limax says, "Okay... I'm not getting this"
[kids]|21:07 katre says, "now to hope this treatment works. I didn't mind shaving Z's hair (his summer haircut is a quarter-inch buzz cut anyway), but duchess will kill me if I shave my head while she's gone"
[iPhone]|21:07 Limax says, "I ask Siri for the weight of a bison, and she gives me the Wolfram/Alpha page that says it's 55 grams"
[iPhone]|21:08 K-Y says, "clearly it searched for a boson"
[iPhone]|21:08 Limax says, "If I say 'American Bison', it gives me a range of .47 tons to 1.1 tons, which is what I expected"
[art]|21:13 K-Y says, "I will never quite get used to how some different the world must look to some people http://www.flickr.com/photos/teohyc/7446360908/lightbox/ "
[law]|21:16 Allen | Charles Carreon is a sensitive character. Not only did he represent FunnyJunk in a defamation case and not only did he go after Matthew Inman, creator of The Oatmeal, in a separate case, but now he has also gone after the creator of charles-carreon.com, a new parody website.
[www-sux]|21:16 Jota says, "Oh, wow, dictionary.com totally sucks if you have javascript enabled."
[law]|21:16 Allen | In a letter dated Friday, June 21, 2012, Carreon accused the owner of that domain, which was originally registered as private, of trademark violation and cybersquatting and asked him to cease-and-desist. In the letter, he threatened to amend his (already once-amended) complaint to name Doe 2 as Satirical Charles, the nom de blog of the website's owner.
[www-sux]|21:16 Jota asks, "Ads that take over the entire page before you can see the definition of a word?"
[law]|21:19 Allen | "Charles Carreon sent a dumb libel demand letter," said Paul Levy, an attorney with the advocacy group Public Citizen, in an interview with Ars on Tuesday. "But I don't have any particular beef with Charles Carreon. We've been on his side over copyright issues. But people do have a right to use trademarks to address what they're talking about and that's what's happened here, and that's why we're supporting the person that registered that domain to create a parody of Mr. Carreon."
[law]|21:21 Jota asks, "Is parody a trademark defense?"
[law]|21:22 Allen says, "yes"
[law]|21:22 Allen says, "in some cases"
[law]|21:22 Allen says, "especially if it's non-commercial"
[lounge]|21:22 Rob comes right on in.
Recapped 1000 of 4693 lines from recent channels.
Current time: Tuesday, 26 Jun 2012, 09:22:53 PM EDT
There is one new message on #misc/personal/robmumble.
There is one new message on #soc/languages/English.
[law] Allen says, "commercial parodies of trademarks are, I think, much less protected than commercial parodies of copyright"
Rob says, "blrn"
Limax says, "Hello Rob"
</Olly> departs for the Torrible Zone.
Grocible says, "robble"
[law] Allen | Levy cited two prominent cases that would appear to bolster his argument for the right to parody a trademark holder. One is a 2005 case known as Falwell v. Lamparello, in which the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit decided against the trademark holder, Jerry Falwell, the conservative Christian preacher and pundit. In that case, Christopher Lamparello created the site fallwell.com, as a way to speak out against Falwell. The court found there was no "likelihood of confusion" between the parody and the official site, nor was there any "initial interest confusion" trademark infringement for non-commercial sites.
Rob says, "grocible, limax"
[law] boucher says, "The thing is, I thought you generally had to be attempting to create confusion about ownership of the trademark to fall afoul of trademark violation."
[law] Rob says, "speaking of trademarks, I saw some stacks of bottled water in walgreens called Nice!(tm)"
[law] Allen says, "but, I remember a case a few years ago where a coffee shop was selling parody t-shirts of Starbucks, showing a mermaid with her legs spread wide, and a logo that said "Commercial Slut", which lost in court big time"
[law] Rob says, "so I guess if you say Nice! someone owns that"
[law] Allen says (to Rob), "no, that's not how trademark works"
[law] boucher says, "It probably suffered for the defendant being a coffee shop."
[law] Allen says, "if you sell a related product called "nice" that is confusingly similar to the product, you're gonna be liable"
[law] boucher says, "Thus someone *might* see them displaying a logo that, at first, appeared to be the original, and made a mistake.  Sure, it's a stretch, but I can see where it was awarded."
[law] Allen says, "there are also tiers of whether the trademarked word is a common word, or a completely fanciful word, or other things"
[law] baf says, "Walgreens has a whole bunch of Nice!-branded products."
[law] boucher says, "Also, because Starbucks has deep pockets and probably very powerful lawyers, and blah blah might makes right...."
Quotations:
jenrexrode (quoted by Rob, 26-Jun-12):
  [robmumble] jenrexrode says, "it was a failed beard joke to go with the failed stroke joke"
#59 [soc/languages/English]        From: DavidW        Date: 26-Jun-12 01:28
Subject: "English as She is Spoke" online
http://www.exclassics.com/espoke/espkint.htm
#9 [misc/personal/robmumble]       From: Rob           Date: 26-Jun-12 02:44
Subject: Folder where I upload stuff
http://raddial.com/audio/music/mp3/
[law] boucher says, "It's long been established that trademarks can be, and in fact are usually domain specific."
[law] baf says, "I like their Nice! rice crackers. I mean, it's just your standard cheap Asian junk food, but in conveniently small bags."
[law] baf says, "and actually not all that cheap compared to real food"
[law] boucher says, "So if you have a commercial where someone says, 'I see you're drinking water.  Nice!', that carries more weight than someone just saying 'Nice!' anywhere else."
[law] Allen says, "it's pretty much always trade-specific"
[law] boucher says, "And yeah, a judge may well just rule that 'Nice' is too common and raise the standard of proof further."
[law] Allen says, "and very common words that are trademarked are trademarked in a very specific niche"
[law] Allen says, "unlike completely made-up words like, say, Haagandaas"
[law] Allen says, "selling Haagandaas camping equipment would probably get you in trouble"
[law] baf says, "So, like, Apple is a trademark when applied to computers, but not when applied to fruit."
[law] Allen says, "or music!"
[law] boucher says, "Apple is a completely bad example."
[law] Allen says, "except itunes, so it probably is covered now"
[law] boucher says, "Apple is actually one of the most trademark-trollist stories in history."
[law] Allen says, "let's just say trademark law is darned complicated"
[cabal] Rob says, "'hey, let me take a poll about pricing'  'ok, nobody polled said what I want to charge, so I'm going to ignore the poll and charge what I want to charge'"
[cabal] Emily says, "yeah well"
[cabal] Emily says, "it's Dave!"
[law] Allen says, "and, unlike copyright, there's trademark law at federal *and* state/local level"
Binder comes out of the closet.
Binder goes southwest to play with toys.
[law] Allen says, "and international trademark law is a complete mess of stuff. You have Name appellation laws in Europe, and they're always super-pissed that their native immigrants moved to America or Canada or Latin America and kept calling things by the same names they were called back in small regions in Europe that are now covered under EU trademark law"
[law] Allen says, "if Europe had their way, we'd have to rename virtually everything"
[law] boucher says, "Apple makes computers.  Apple Records (the Beatles people) complain.  Apple says, 'Yeah, but we're not making music.  Give us a pass?'  'Okay, fine.  Just stay out of the music business.'  Later Apple registers Apple MIDI.  'We thought you were going to stay out of music.'  'Oh, just this one thing.  Nobody's going to get confused.'  'Okay, fine.'  Then the AppleCD CD-ROM drive.  'Okay, seriously.  Apple CD?  This is going to cause confusion.'  'Yeah, but...it's more for data.  Nobody will be bothered.'  Then eventually the iPod, iTunes, and the Apple Music Store.  A Judge practically declares Apple the rightful owner of the Apple trademark by now.  Apple Music gives up and gives Apple the name, and Apple currently now *permits* Apple Records to use *their name*."
Ellison has appeared in three Bigfoot/Abominable Snowman-themed movies: Bigfoot: The Unforgettable Encounter, Little Bigfoot and Abominable.
[cabal] Rob says, "cue SNL sketch music"
<Duodave> An apt quotation is as good as an original remark.
[law] Allen says, "the French champaigne producers got the US to ban champaigne in the US, but older makers were grandfathered in, so there are still a small number of sparkling wine makers in the US that can call their products "champagne". And, they're the ones that have been around since the 1940s, so they're almost all cheap sparkling-wine swill makers"
Duodave feeds the insatiable hatred of the envious and the jealous.
Duodave says, "hi"
[law] Allen says, "where the artisanal makers have to call their stuff "sparkling wine""
Duodave says, "how is everyone today"
[I7] Duodave says, "whats a good extension for doing conversations? I have been looking at some and some of them seem complex"
[law] boucher says, "Oh, and as the final kick in the nuts, arm-twists them into finally putting the Beatles catalogue on iTunes"
[law] Allen says, "in Italy, only cheese makers from a small region that make their cheeses using traditional methods and age them for at least a year can call anything "parmiggiano" but in the US, cheesemakers than make a disgusting product that comes in a plastic shaker that has a shelf-life measured in decades the same thing"
[law] Allen says, "that's why I love America"
[I7] DavidW says, "I assume the reason there's many extensions for conversation because there's no one 'right' way that suits everyone."
[law] Allen says, "take that, Budweis!"
[law] Duodave says, "i have friends who once brought me a huge block of parmigane from italy... it was actually kind of difficult to grate"
[law] Allen says, "yeah... it's *hard*"
[law] boucher says, "The only thing Apple could do to further dilute their trademark would be to close down and privatize Abbey Road to put an Apple Store on it, and buy the remaining Beatles into slavery."
[law] boucher says, "Wait, that would be just being a dick, which they're also good at."
[law] Allen says, "that'd be fun."
[law] K-Y asks, "has Apple Records actually released anything since the Beatles broke up?"
Ellison asks, "I'm great, thanks. you?"
[law] Allen says, "I'd love to see a McCartney/Ringo reunion together with computer-regenerated-other-beatles"
[law] K-Y says, "other than more Beatles"
[law] Duodave asks, "would they really have to?"
[law] Allen says, "Apple Records released other things than the Beatles before the breakup"
[law] Duodave asks, "i mean, how much did michael jackson pay apple ?"
[cabal] Emily says, "I blame myself for still being suckered into conversations where I imagine I'm somehow going to help him understand something"
[law] Allen says, "there was the extended-45 release in 1968 that included that great song "Those Were The Days""
[cabal] Emily says, "because, as Hugo pointed out, I really should know better"
[law] Allen says, "Those were the days my friend / we thought they'd never end / we'd sing and dance / forever and a day!"
[law] Allen says, "I had that on 8-track tape. I loved that"
[law] K-Y says, "well, who cares about a label that doesn't release anything"
[law] Duodave says, "true"
[I7] DavidW says, "I suggest finding a 'simple' one, for starters, but it really depends on how you want conversation to work in your game."
[I7] DavidW says, "It might even be helpful to make a few toy test games just to experiment with."
[law] boucher says, "It's complicated.  I think Michael Jackson owned sort of...like, 'shares' in the songs.  He could easily have chosen a different label to release the songs under, but I don't think he saw a reason.  They're a sublabel under Capitol records now, it appears."
[law] boucher says, "Er, Capitol and EMI."
<vaporware> DON'T buy a parrot figuring that it will be a fun surprise for me.
vaporware isn't exactly known for having Nobel Laureates or members of Star Fleet as guests.
[law] boucher says, "Music licensing is so messy."
[law] boucher says, "When you want rights to a song for international purposes, like in a movie, you often end up going to no fewer than a dozen parties to make sure everyone agrees."
[law] Duodave says, "according to wikipedia, Apple hasn't released anything new in a while... quite a lot of best of compilations..."
[law] vaporware says, "In the future, everything will be released anonymously on torrent sites because it'll be impossible to untangle the rights to anything."
</BrenBarn> HIHOH BOOU. GYUST BOUD. VINYORN PASH. JAYSHO HUISN. HOIS ONSHOO.
<BrenBarn> Me, shall I not lie down like him, never again to move?
[I7] Duodave says, "thanks"
[law] boucher says, "There are many things, a few of which I like, which are virtually impossible to release *just* because the soundtrack rights are almost impossible to untangle"
[law] vaporware asks, "WKRP?"
[law] boucher says, "Er, or re-release, you know, putting something out on DVD or whatever."
[tangent] Allen says, "huh, 1962 version of Those Were The Days! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O5EeBjxhiY "
[law] K-Y says, "also, for some reason most huge international labels don't operate in the US"
[tangent] Allen says, "this is smarmy compared to Mary Hopkins"
[law] boucher says, "One of the most infamous ones I really wanted, which they finally managed in a crude way with a lot of hard editing, was the MTV sketch comedy show The State."
(Current channel set to #if/web/ifdb)
[ifdb] Rob asks, "how do I get my profile page as a url that I can post somewhere else?"
[law] K-Y says, "so as it turns out, half the good stuff I want is available in Canada but not the US"
[ifdb] Rob says, "just navigating there within site and being logged in it hides any identifiers from the url"
[ifdb] Rob says, "saying just 'showuser'"
[law] boucher says, "Like all other MTV TV shows, they had a blanket license to use any song that MTV received a video for.  It was part of the standard release contract MTV made every publisher sign.  'In return for us showing your video, you give us a royalty-free license to the song for X period of time'"
[law] boucher says, "But that meant it was impossible to rerun or republish most of these shows."
[ifdb] Rob says, "wait, figured it out"
[ifdb] Rob says, " http://ifdb.tads.org/showuser?id=dbp7hrtpao8joatq "
[law] boucher says, "One of my friends is annoyed that several anime are unpublishable in the US because, when it came time to license the content to the US, they licensed the video and the music to two different entities, and now they, or their rightsholder descendents won't cooperate."
[ifdb] Ellison says, "dang, I figured it out, too"
[law] Allen | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Records_discography
Fang is told of the death of Christ, and becomes so angry that the brain bursts from his head, and he dies. The blood from the wound baptises him as a Christian, and his soul goes to heaven.
</Fang> Conclusion: My conclusion is large apples.
[law] Allen says, "hey, Badfinger"
[law] Rob says, "of course Badfinger !"
[band-name] Allen says, "Badfinger is the single worst band name, ever"
[law] Rob says, "they were one of the first acts signed, along with james taylor"
[cartoons] Jota asks, "When did it become OK for cartoons to talk about death?"
[band-name] Rob says, "I dunno, it's unique and memorable"
[cartoons] Rob asks, "what kinda cartoons?"
[cartoons] vaporware says, "Well, there was Beetlejuice."
[law] boucher says, "Likewise, many may remember an anime called Robotech in the west.  It was partially re-edited and adapted from the Japanese anime The Super Dimension Fortress Macross, as well as several others.  Macross has continued on in Japan and had lots of sequels and other stuff, but none of it can come out in the US because one company who bought it to turn it into Robotech won't let them."
[cartoons] Rob says, "if editorial cartoons from the beginning of newspapers"
[law] boucher says, "Same thing for the Mechwarrior videogame series, as it used designs from it."
[band-name] Allen says, "ha, past members list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badfinger "
[law] Rob says, "the beatles' all-around-guy and semi-roadie Mal Evans found badfinger (I think then called The Hollies) and signed them and produced their first album"
[cabal] Hugo says, "You know, Emily should really know bett -- oops, was afk."
[cartoons] Jota says (to Rob), "Television cartoons aimed at kids."
[band-name] Rob says, "there are an unfortunate number of suicides in the lineup"
[cartoons] Jota says, "(Specifically, Adventure Time.)"
[band-name] Rob says, "also, one of those legal wrangles where you had too many ex-members at the same time touring as badfinger"
[cartoons] Rob says, "hmm"
[band-name] Allen | Released in 1973,[36] the Ass front cover featured Evans' idea: a jackass staring at a huge dangling carrot.[65]
[law] boucher says, "In a world where the Internet makes borders feel very thin, this is frustrating and stupid"
[cartoons] Rob says, "in movie cartoons there's Bambi..."
[band-name] Rob says, "I love the badfinger sound"
[band-name] Rob says, "I kind of always wanted to be a band that sounded like my version of that"
[band-name] Allen says, "soooo dated"
[band-name] Allen says, "I'm pretty sure I had a greatest hits on cassette back in the day"
[band-name] Allen says, "listening to them now is so depressing"
[band-name] Ellison says, "to be honest, they weren't really on my radar until I heard 'baby blue' in The Departed"
[cabal] Grocible says, "Hugo: you'll be pleased to know that I include the line "Look up. Look wayyy up" in my new book"
[law] K-Y says, "going back to the original topic, the US *is* where courts domain names are regularly ordered to be handed over to the owner of the corresponding trademark"
[band-name] Rob says, "I still think they rock out pretty good in their best stuff"
[law] K-Y says, "er, -courts"
Ellison says, "oops, battery's dying. later."
Ellison goes back to Squeamhurst..
Ellison has disconnected.
[band-name] Rob says, "has a nice fat sizzle to it"
[cabal] Grocible says, "and if you're not pleased to know that, then damn you"
[band-name] Allen says, "here's a vastly better piece from that exact same post-beatles era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAvZrBEkImw "
[band-name] Allen says, "Anne Briggs, who sounds just as fresh now as she did in 1971"
[cabal] Hugo says, "You gotta know your audience."
[band-name] Rob says, "vastly-better-according-to-Allen's-taste"
[band-name] Rob says, "this is a folk song, not a pop-rock song"
[cabal] Grocible asks, "Canadians of a certain age?"
[cabal] Grocible says, "Middle age to older Canadians, I grimly admit"
[band-name] Rob says, "it's not even comparable in terms of what it is"
Emily goes home.
Emily has disconnected.
[band-name] Rob says, "to me it sounds as dated as acoustic folk music sounded in 1971"
[band-name] Allen says, "Steeleye Span!!!"
[cabal] Hugo says, "Hang on."
[cabal] Hugo says, "I'm twitching."
[band-name] Allen says, "eep, heresy"
[band-name] Rob says, "well, it was"
Gerynar enters the lounge but is facing the wrong way. After a couple minutes of staring at the wall, he turns around.
[band-name] Rob says, "its apogee was when bob dylan pre-electric"
Gerynar looks around and wonders who has gone ahead and finished any of his WIPs for him when he wasn't looking
Rob says, "'rynar"
[cabal] Grocible asks, "Sound like anybody you know?"
Gerynar says, "'ob"
[band-name] Allen says, "here's some real rock music, then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBBSYK20-T0 "
[band-name] Allen says, "from 1970. British"
[band-name] Allen says, "I don't listen to rock that much anymore, but early Maddy Prior still makes me swoon"
[band-name] Rob says, " http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb7S8-Iewi0 "
[band-name] Allen says, "see, that kinda music is the equivalent of early 70s cinema!"
[band-name] Allen says, "ok, too dated."
[band-name] Rob says, "early 70's cinema is great !"
[band-name] Allen says, "there are no heroes! no excitement!"
[band-name] Rob says, "it's funny to hear a guy that likes 15th century tunes saying something is too dated"
[band-name] Rob says, "piffle"
[band-name] Allen asks, "5 easy pieces... what's the point??"
[band-name] Alex says (to Allen), "Awwwk! Word on the street is that the point is on top of your head."
[band-name] Rob says, "Patton, The French Connection, The Godfather, MASH, Chinatown"
[band-name] Allen says, "also, I got a great recording of 15c chansons that just arrived"
[band-name] Allen says, "ok, the French Connect remains fresh today, but only because of the car-elevated-train chase"
[band-name] Allen says, "and Chinatown does have the awesome nostril slitting"
[band-name] Rob says, "my film professor said he grew up in that neighborhood"
[band-name] Rob says, "so when everyone else was watching the chase he was looking at the little shops he recognized whizzing by"
[band-name] Allen says, "but you watch MASH and all you can think is "Wait, these characters don't match up at all with the TV show I know instinctively""
[band-name] Rob says, "heh"
[band-name] Rob says, "well I'm a huge fan of the tv show"
[band-name] Rob says, "it's taken me quite a long time to warm up to the movie"
[band-name] Rob says, "which is really kind of annoying and bratty and nihilistic"
[band-name] Allen says, "Godfather is just boring. I do like Patton, though"
[band-name] Rob says, "it's too bad you don't like the Godfather because it's a high exercise in cinema"
[band-name] Rob says, "but if you hate all the characters it's going to seem boring"
Gerynar says, "Sure is quiet tonight"
[band-name] Rob says, "this rule applies to any movie"
[band-name] Allen says, "it's an order of magnitude more exciting than the second movie"
Gerynar says, "I'm pretty sure I'm on all the cool channels"
Grocible asks, "#no-gerynar-here Think Gerynar'll notice?"
Grocible says, "oops"
[band-name] Allen says, "I still don't like it"
Duodave says, "of course you are"
Rob says, "there's a lively debate going on #band-name right now"
[band-name] Rob says, "yep I can see how it's unlikeable"
[band-name] * Gerynar has joined the channel.
[textfyre] Dave says, "so maybe found a biz partner"
[band-name] * Duodave has joined the channel.
[band-name] Rob says, "I'm just saying that it's actually really good on a lot of vectors and it's reputation isn't just gassy hype"
[textfyre] Dave says, "28 years old...male...easy on the eyes...marketing major in his MBA"
[band-name] Rob says, "you have to be into gordon willis's cinematography at the very least"
[textfyre] Dave says, "had good questions"
borowski goes southwest to play with toys.
[textfyre] Rob says, "or is he an ambitious guy who will want to use you for his own ends"
[textfyre] Rob says, "what school did he get the MBA from"
[textfyre] Rob says, "I mean, you might have to go with a guy like that anyway"
[band-name] Allen says, "I have a real hard time maintaining an attention span through any movie these days."
[band-name] Rob says, "I actually do know what you mean"
[band-name] Allen says, "too many internet things happenning. Gotta keep refreshing my email. Check twitter. See who has replied to my comments on assorted news sites"
[band-name] Rob says, "I'm not all that into anything lately"
[textfyre] Dave says, "DePaul"
[band-name] Rob says, "I had a plan to go to a movie tonight but I ended up enh-ing it once again"
[textfyre] Dave says, "yes, you have to have a guy that is more interested in the business and less interested or less focused on IF"
[band-name] Allen says, "also, it's non-productive to just sit there and passively absorb."
[band-name] Gerynar asks, "what movie did you enh?"
[band-name] Rob says, "my strategy seems to be to not do much of any internet anything"
[textfyre] Dave says, "but more than anything, willing to work his ass off for about 6 months through the CPS pilot"
[textfyre] Dave says, "for free"
[band-name] Rob says, "hm well there was the steve carell thing about the end of the world, the new pixar movie, the abe lincoln vampire thing"
[textfyre] Dave says, "and he seemed to be capable of all of that"
[band-name] Allen asks, "oh is the abe lincoln vampire thing out?"
[band-name] Allen says, "I'm not that interested in seeing it, but I'm interested in reading reviews of it"
[band-name] Rob says, "I didn't know the new wes anderson movie was showing here (I thought it was only in NY and LA), but it turns out it is, but I didn't feel enough oomph to see it at the theaters it's showing in"
[band-name] Rob says, "the reviews have been ok"
[band-name] Rob says, "I just am so sick of vampires"
[band-name] Allen says, "yeah."
[textfyre] Dave says (to rob), "at some point, I could use your copyrighting ability again"
[band-name] Rob says, "and as for this movie it seems like the title has the whole joke in it so why see it"
[band-name] Allen says, "I thought hoboes were going to be the next vampires. But there have been precious few hoboes of late"
[textfyre] Rob says, "well I'd be ok with that but I can't work for free"
[band-name] Allen asks, "hobos?"
[textfyre] Dave says, "I'm aware of that"
[textfyre] Rob says, "which was the only sticking point earlier, I just want to mention"
[textfyre] Dave says, "sure and I was poor back then"
[textfyre] Dave says, "I have some amount of spending money for Textfyre now"
[band-name] Gerynar says, "well, no more Clem Caddiddlehopper since we lost R. Skelton"
[textfyre] Rob says, "the little bit plus Microsoft Office key seemed like fine compensation for the work I did up until I stopped"
[textfyre] Dave says, "I just place it carefully now"
[textfyre] Rob says, "so we're clean and even in my mind"
[textfyre] Rob says, "yeah well let me know, I'm still around"
[textfyre] Dave says, "I want to pull together the play to learn and game to learn white papers I've found and turn that into website marketing text"
[band-name] Rob says, "hobos is funnier and probably legit"
[textfyre] Rob says, "ok"
[textfyre] Rob asks, "are you still doing the embedded dictionary thing?"
[textfyre] Dave says, "so I'll have a bunch of theory and proof material and you'd have to dumb it down"
Duodave goes home.
</Duodave> Do you realize if it weren't for Edison we'd all be watching TV by candlelight?
[textfyre] Rob says, "ok that's within my capabilities"
[textfyre] Dave says, "that's a probability for the classroom software"
<jenrexrode> jenrexrode has connected to ifMUD.
[textfyre] Dave says, "but it may be a missing feature for the pilot"
jenrexrode has entered the lounge. [ Your score has gone up by 10 points ]
Rob says, "jen-o"
[textfyre] Dave says, "but that's something I have to work through once we start meeting with CPS"
[textfyre] Dave says, "it may be that they have a contract with M-W and I can use that"
[textfyre] Rob says, "rather than working by the hour, I prefer that you work out what your budget is for what you want done, and that budget hires me to do it"
[textfyre] Dave says, "anyway...Textfyre 2.0 has begun...and I'm going from 3rd gear to 5th quickly"
[TV] Gerynar is watching Frontline on TV right now and is getting more and more scared of dentists
Limax says, "Hello jenrex"
[textfyre] Dave says, "when I'm ready for that work, we'll talk more...probably closer to August"
Gerynar waves to rode
jenrexrode says, "hey-o"
[TV] Rob says, "I've been scared of dentists ever since my regular dentist poked a sharp metal needle into a raw exposed nerve while doing an incompetent root canal"
[textfyre] Rob says, "ok"
[textfyre] Dave says, "I know this sounds crazy, but I sense a convergence....there are people publishing play to learn and game to learn papers"
[textfyre] Dave says, "and I'm going to take those and use IF to build a learning model"
[band-name] Allen says, "here's a 15c love song of the stuff I've been listening to lately: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn6Xp2rL2j4 "
[TV] Hugo says, "That sounds like an irregular dentist."
[band-name] Allen says, "Le souvenir de vous me tue"
[textfyre] Rob says, "it's all slowly been moving forward the past 10 years"
[textfyre] Rob says, "we all misapprehended the timeframe for breaking out, I think"
[textfyre] Dave says, "and if we prove that test scores are better after a couple of chapters using IF as opposed to the standard textbook, we should be able to make a multi-year sale"
[TV] Gerynar says, "it's about "medicare dentists" companies that are basically bilking medicare"
[textfyre] Dave says, "we were ahead of our time"
[band-name] Rob asks, "who are the people uploading 15c stuff to youtube?"
[textfyre] Dave says, "and not for the reasons we thought"
[textfyre] Dave says, "the changing factor (I think) was the iPad"
[textfyre] Rob says, "hm, yeah, did make a difference"
[band-name] Allen | The memory of you kills me, / My one treasure, when I cannot see you. / Because I swear to you upon my honor, / Without you my joy is lost. / When you are out of my sight, / I lament and cry out to myself; / Alone I remain, bereft of soul, / Receiving no comfort / And so I shall suffer in silence / Until your return.
[textfyre] Dave says, "it opened the eyes of teachers to technology in a way they'd not considered"
[band-name] Rob says, "on the other hand, I wouldn't mind composing something like this either"
[textfyre] Dave says, "I think teachers viewed technology as a hindrance or a babysitter"
[textfyre] Dave says, "and it doesn't have to be that way"
[textfyre] Dave says, "it can he another tool"
[textfyre] Dave says, "an effective tool"
[textfyre] Rob says, "also just the convenience and availability and interface of it"
[textfyre] Rob says, "2 year olds can use iPads"
[textfyre] Rob says, "like fish in water, it's kinda creepy"
[textfyre] Dave says, "right...there is no training"
[band-name] Allen says, "the long melismas wouldn't really return to secular music until the early 1600s"
[band-name] Allen says, "after the hey-day of the Loire valley chansons"
[textfyre] Dave says, "and with texting so popular, playing IF is going to be very easy to transition to"
[band-name] Rob says, "melismas, root word meli- meaning honey"
[band-name] Allen says, "it got simplified as it moved to Paris, and to Italy"
[textfyre] Rob says, "maybe"
[textfyre] Gerynar says, "my 2 year old (now 3) can use Android tablets quite easily (I had a kid app on my Xoom that had a "drawing" mode) He kept coming up to me and asking "Color?""
[TV] DorianX says, "Dentistry is a common source of insurance fraud"
[TV] DorianX says, "and regular fraud"
[textfyre] Dave says, "well, it helps that the students will be required to play IF"
[textfyre] Dave says, "it won't be a choice"
[textfyre] Rob says, "my niece and nephew use ipads so startlingly intuitively"
[textfyre] Rob says, "says a lot for the touch interface apple developed"
[TV] DorianX says, "I assume it's because doing it destroys the evidence"
[textfyre] Dave says, "and that's only going to grow"
[textfyre] Rob says, "but by the age of 2 you can swipe your finger around to poke and point at things"
[band-name] Allen says (to Rob), "not the same song, but this is from the same manuscript this is taken from: http://plover.net/~agarvin/n117.jpg "
[textfyre] Rob says, "and there you have it"
[textfyre] Dave says, "the market is ripe"
[textfyre] Dave says, "keep the wipes handy though"
[textfyre] Dave says, "you know 2 year olds and runny noses"
[TV] Gerynar says, "excapt for all the Stainless Steel caps for kids who really didn't need them, and were often incorrectly fitted to the kids"
[TV] Gerynar says, "makes me want to cry"
[textfyre] Rob says, "I just want to get my own games out there someday, I'm waiting for someone to invent some things that I don't have the ability to do"
[TV] Grocible says, "the Tripods were bad that way"
[textfyre] Dave asks, "like what?"
[TV] DorianX says, "Well, you cna prove they were incorrectly fitted, but proving they didn't need them is hard"
[textfyre] Rob says, "just like a deployable package that takes my z files and lets me tweak the UI skin, some ideas I have about abbreviating the interaction interface, and other stuff"
[textfyre] Rob says, "I'm just not enough of a programmer to do any of it, though I know what I need"
[textfyre] Rob says, "I can write the games but not the shell"
[TV] Gerynar says, "Mass. medicare saw a huge increase in requests for payments for the caps...much higher than other dentists that took medicare"
[textfyre] * zaphod has joined the channel.
<PerrySimm> PerrySimm has connected to ifMUD.
[textfyre] Dave says, "we should talk about that...Zifmia is relatively easy to skin"
[textfyre] Rob says, "ok, when we start talking in another month or so, we'll talk"
[textfyre] Dave says, "I haven't released any games on Zifmia because I'd like to do that holistically"
[textfyre] Rob asks, "what do you mean holistically?"
[textfyre] Dave says, "as opposed to repurposing Shadow or Secret Letter"
[textfyre] Dave says, "all one thing"
[textfyre] Rob says, "ah"
[textfyre] Rob says, "ok"
[textfyre] Gerynar says, ""holistic" makes me think of a particular PI who looked for lost cats"
Rob says, "ok, gotta go"
[textfyre] Dave says, "I think I used the right word"
Rob says, "back later"
Dave says, "yeah - me too"
Rob heads right on out.
</Rob> Find release from your cares. have a good time.
Seeya later.